43 replies to this topic

[mickwren]

John Dickinson wrote in TMX that there was no interest in the ACU Trials Forum because people believe that the ACU Trials and Enduro Committee don't take any notice of what is said at these forums and just do what they want.
I believe that nobody wanted to come to the forum because the vast majority of you are happy with the sport we help to promote.
It was also sugested that we could hold the forum over the Tials Central web site rather than make everybody travel to Rugby.
I am a member of the T&E Committee and I resent the opinion that we are a bunch of megalomaniacs who dont listen.
I don't expect anyone to tell us they are happy with us,that never happens, but if you have any specific comments about the way we handle the sport please post them here.
Please remember that this includes everyone from 6years old to pre 65 riders, not just the British Championship.
We know there are some issues with ladies trials and we are working on those
I look forward to your comments
Mick Wren

[Nigel Dabster]

I went to the forum last year.
The ACU listened and the proposal I made was implemented.
I tried to encourage other ordinary ACU members to do the same this year.

I personally believe if the affiliation ased to £50 we could get a much more full time ACU presnece at the international events and provide the support that AS iow and Ataom ant want.
My doubts are that the vast majority just want the ACU to facilitate their riding each week.
None of the Championships are perfect but, as Mick says above people must be happy with things or else they would have demanded to be at the forum. They did not. If all the ladies and Alan had wanted a different date and asked for it, I am sure it would have been possible.

Antipathy rules?

[scorpa3]

As the General Secretary and Clerk of the Course for an ACU trials club running three National, one Centre and up to six club trials per year, I accept that I should have made the effort to have attended the Forum and not putting my name forward was a mistake. I regret not doing so and with hind sight wish that I had.

At the time it was too convenient for me to find an excuse not to attend (what that excuse was doesn't matter, we can all do that when it suits us to), expecting others to raise the points of which I am interested.

Should another forum be arranged I would like to attend, I would also like to participate in an 'On line' forum should it be set up

Personally I am am happy with the way trials are run in general.

However, I do have relevant issues that I would like to bring up either for consideration, clarification or just general debate. Certanly not a 'Fanatic' wishing to impose his view. Merely a trials enthusiast working with others to improve OUR sport.

[Adsy]

Thanks for the opportunity to put our views across Mick.

One thing I would like changed is the rule where not all rounds count towards a British Championship,
Whether it be Adult, Youth or any other category for that matter, surely a Championship is about consistency throughout a year, if you have bad day, then it should count.
I am thinking that this is a rule unique only to trials, BSB, Motox etc do not drop a round, why trials?

Regards
Adam Challoner

P.S. some sort of financial help for Youths at International level would'nt go amiss. (I'm not talking thousands, but somthing would be better than nowt)

Edited by Adsy, 16 September 2006 - 10:33 AM.

[matt]

Adsy i totally agree with your P.s about financial help towards international events and infact its probably an understatement.

At every world round there are team trucks all been oragansised and funded by the other countries' trials committees including spain, france and Italy. all this from these teams and how many french or italian riders are in the top 10 in full world championship...0. but still get enough sponsors together to fund a team, why cant the ACU???

We have 3 riders in the top 10, one of which (dougie) doesnt require any financial nor proffessional backing as hes been world champ so many times and you can argue dougie made it to the top alone before been picked up by sponsors and such like but can we see someone who is going to repeat that??


take the junior world championship, if it wasnt for Browny getting into the TTT he would have had no financial or proffessional backing. and the fact that he is in the TTT is not down to the ACU!!
whereas his main 2 competitors oliveros & gilbert have been backed from the RFME from the age of about 10 all with proper minders, mechanics, cooks etc... how does he compete with that????

similarly with wiggy, haslam, sampson, danby in the 125 world championship no help what so ever from the acu in terms of a team with backing. up against the likes of gubian, Karim with backing from the french federation, Grattarola from team italia and i believe Gomez is in the RFME team.

there is no wonder when you look in the top 7 of world championship there are 5 spaniards!

why is nothing been done???

Edited by matt, 16 September 2006 - 01:32 PM.

[AtomAnt]

matt, on Sep 16 2006, 02:31 PM, said:

Adsy i totally agree with your P.s about financial help towards international events and infact its probably an understatement.

At every world round there are team trucks all been oragansised and funded by the other countries' trials committees including spain, france and Italy. all this from these teams and how many french or italian riders are in the top 10 in full world championship...0. but still get enough sponsors together to fund a team, why cant the ACU???

We have 3 riders in the top 10, one of which (dougie) doesnt require any financial nor proffessional backing as hes been world champ so many times and you can argue dougie made it to the top alone before been picked up by sponsors and such like but can we see someone who is going to repeat that??


take the junior world championship, if it wasnt for Browny getting into the TTT he would have had no financial or proffessional backing. and the fact that he is in the TTT is not down to the ACU!!
whereas his main 2 competitors oliveros & gilbert have been backed from the RFME from the age of about 10 all with proper minders, mechanics, cooks etc... how does he compete with that????

similarly with wiggy, haslam, sampson, danby in the 125 world championship no help what so ever from the acu in terms of a team with backing. up against the likes of gubian, Karim with backing from the french federation, Grattarola from team italia and i believe Gomez is in the RFME team.

there is no wonder when you look in the top 7 of world championship there are 5 spaniards!

why is nothing been done???

I can just see the faces of the ACU when they read this post ! here we go again they are thinking

But it is a valid question and one that should be discussed in the new forum if it comes about.

[Sandifords]

Mick,
I think an on-line forum is an excellent idea. From my own point of view (and I know you will appreciate the same) taking time out from the business is always difficult, especially at this time of year. An online debate, presentation of issues or concerns, would allow all levels of the sport to be represented. I'm sure Andy would be happy to even set up a separate link....?? Hope I've not suggested a headache for you Andy, but certain topics could be listed and replies, suggestions added thereto. (Constructively I hope).
Regards,
Caroline Sandiford - Montesa UK.

[bikespace]

French Scorpa
Italian Beta
Spanish GasGas/Sherco
Japanese Honda

We don't have a motorcycle industry. I'm sure we'd find it easier to get funding if we did. Anyone fancy riding aRoyal Enfield next year, no wait, they're Indian.
If we had a motorcycle industry we'd have a damned site more chance of getting funding for the sport. I don't suppose there's much chance of that happening though.

We can't always blame an organisation that we pay very little to for every weakness in the sport. People don't seem to realise that much of the money we give to the ACU is for insurance, not to fund bigwigs holiday trips.

Edited by bikespace, 16 September 2006 - 02:55 PM.

[AtomAnt]

bikespace, on Sep 16 2006, 03:43 PM, said:

We can't always blame an organisation that we pay very little to for every weakness in the sport. People don't seem to realise that much of the money we give to the ACU is for insurance, not to fund bigwigs holiday trips.

Do you know this for a fact Gaz ? Also, its up to the ACU how much they charge us. If we agree we want more for our money then we will have to pay.!

Also, I propose that the first thing to do is to let us see a full breakdown of how the Trials income money is spent and then lets discuss ways of using it differently to better the sport.

[scorpa3]

matt, on Sep 16 2006, 02:31 PM, said:

Adsy i totally agree with your P.s about financial help towards international events and infact its probably an understatement.

At every world round there are team trucks all been oragansised and funded by the other countries' trials committees including spain, france and Italy. all this from these teams and how many french or italian riders are in the top 10 in full world championship...0. but still get enough sponsors together to fund a team, why cant the ACU???

We have 3 riders in the top 10, one of which (dougie) doesnt require any financial nor proffessional backing as hes been world champ so many times and you can argue dougie made it to the top alone before been picked up by sponsors and such like but can we see someone who is going to repeat that??


take the junior world championship, if it wasnt for Browny getting into the TTT he would have had no financial or proffessional backing. and the fact that he is in the TTT is not down to the ACU!!
whereas his main 2 competitors oliveros & gilbert have been backed from the RFME from the age of about 10 all with proper minders, mechanics, cooks etc... how does he compete with that????

similarly with wiggy, haslam, sampson, danby in the 125 world championship no help what so ever from the acu in terms of a team with backing. up against the likes of gubian, Karim with backing from the french federation, Grattarola from team italia and i believe Gomez is in the RFME team.

there is no wonder when you look in the top 7 of world championship there are 5 spaniards!

why is nothing been done???

This is a subject which has been debated at length many times before. I agree that the ACU should be trying to promote youth riders into the top level of the sport and that the ACU themselves are the natural people to be trying to generate sponsorship.

However, the ACU should not be spending large amounts of cash running big trucks etc (A point which always seems to be mentioned in these debates)

Remember, it is money generated by the rank and file members of the ACU which would be being spent. How would a big truck for Joe Bloggs in the WTC help the riders in a local club?

If this sponsorship which people keep talking about is there for the taking, wht don't they go and get it? Anyone can approach a company with a proposal for backing in return for certain promotional opportunities.
£50 gets a logo on a helmet, £100 gets a logo on the bike, £200 gets one on the van etc etc.

Just give it a go. I can tell you it does work, I have done this with much success in road racing but you will have to give value for money and most importantly not just take the cash and forget about the backer for the next 51 weeks. They will need continued updates on your riders results and given free PR and photo opportunities.

Start off with £50 option this year and make the sponsor feel so good that they give you the £100 option next year and keep them happy. If you very lucky they come up trumps after a year or two.

Just do not expect the big truck and a fat salary in the first place. 'There is no such thing as a free lunch!'

[bikespace]

AtomAnt, on Sep 16 2006, 04:03 PM, said:

bikespace, on Sep 16 2006, 03:43 PM, said:

We can't always blame an organisation that we pay very little to for every weakness in the sport. People don't seem to realise that much of the money we give to the ACU is for insurance, not to fund bigwigs holiday trips.

Do you know this for a fact Gaz ?

I know how much we pay for insurance because I'm involved in organising, as you are, and I'm sure some people perceive the entry fee to be levied heavily by the ACU just for their own funding. Much of this is the insurance.

AtomAnt, on Sep 16 2006, 04:03 PM, said:

Also, its up to the ACU how much they charge us. If we agree we want more for our money then we will have to pay.!

Not everyone agrees we want more money - I'm not even going to say which side I fall on, because it doesn't matter. What matters is what the majority want. We've discussed this before and other than a few "fanatics" most people were of the opinion that they were happy with a cheap motorsport.

AtomAnt, on Sep 16 2006, 04:03 PM, said:

Also, I propose that the first thing to do is to let us see a full breakdown of how the Trials income money is spent and then lets discuss ways of using it differently to better the sport.

Isn't this available? I'm sure it could be if you were involved with the ACU. Sounds like the ACU needs you!

[AtomAnt]

bikespace, on Sep 16 2006, 04:28 PM, said:

AtomAnt, on Sep 16 2006, 04:03 PM, said:

Also, I propose that the first thing to do is to let us see a full breakdown of how the Trials income money is spent and then lets discuss ways of using it differently to better the sport.

Isn't this available? I'm sure it could be if you were involved with the ACU. Sounds like the ACU needs you!

Now you are taking the pi$$

[bikespace]

Before anyone jumps on the bandwagon (if they were going to) I have to admit I know Atomant very well, and have been cruelly trying to touch a nerve.
I have to say I've used an unfair advantage in knowing him

To those that don't know Atom, he is one of the workers, not only involved with TC, but with fairly major sponsorship and promotion of youth riders, and work within local trials, both getting hands dirty and doing the techy geeky stuff for them.

Probably an important thing to remember on here - we only see the TC side of a lot of people - we have a chip at people and we have no idea how much work they're doing in the background. Same goes for people like John Collins. The web makes it very easy for the little guy to chip away at the big guy without actually getting off his butt
Probably something we need to keep in mind for the on-line forum - It makes everybodys voice the same no matter how much they are willing to actually get up off their a*** and do something about it.

Edited by bikespace, 16 September 2006 - 04:34 PM.

[TRICKYMICKY]

AUTO CYCLE UNION?- Try a name change for a start,something the younger (or even older ) generation can relate to . And if you can manage that we might start to believe that some of the ancient old duffers trying to give speeches at the annual dinner are actually doing something worthwhile and not just hangers on...

[Nigel Dabster]

Adsy, on Sep 16 2006, 11:30 AM, said:

Thanks for the opportunity to put our views across Mick.

One thing I would like changed is the rule where not all rounds count towards a British Championship,
Whether it be Adult, Youth or any other category for that matter, surely a Championship is about consistency throughout a year, if you have bad day, then it should count.
I am thinking that this is a rule unique only to trials, BSB, Motox etc do not drop a round, why trials?

Regards
Adam Challoner

P.S. some sort of financial help for Youths at International level would'nt go amiss. (I'm not talking thousands, but somthing would be better than nowt)

Totally disagree as I think you will when jack does the WTC (next year), essential to drop rounds as its just not possible to do every round of evry championship.

I thought that the ACU did do a little to help the cost of competing in the Euro youth rounds

matt, on Sep 16 2006, 02:31 PM, said:

Adsy i totally agree with your P.s about financial help towards international events and infact its probably an understatement.

At every world round there are team trucks all been oragansised and funded by the other countries' trials committees including spain, france and Italy. all this from these teams and how many french or italian riders are in the top 10 in full world championship...0. but still get enough sponsors together to fund a team, why cant the ACU???

Because their licence fees are alot more than ours and they can get tobacco sponsorship (historically)

We have 3 riders in the top 10, one of which (dougie) doesnt require any financial nor proffessional backing as hes been world champ so many times and you can argue dougie made it to the top alone before been picked up by sponsors and such like but can we see someone who is going to repeat that??

Your list below has some good candidates

take the junior world championship, if it wasnt for Browny getting into the TTT he would have had no financial or proffessional backing. and the fact that he is in the TTT is not down to the ACU!!

Thought he had been part of the ACU academy and how many ACU events has he competed in over the years


whereas his main 2 competitors oliveros & gilbert have been backed from the RFME from the age of about 10 all with proper minders, mechanics, cooks etc... how does he compete with that????

I think you underestimate the effort that Steve and Sean and Micheal put in now, they would be there without the TTT or the ACU having both has helped, TTT alot I'm sure but give the lad credit he has won more rounds this year than the other two. I'm sure he would be there even in the back of an old van.

similarly with wiggy, haslam, sampson, danby in the 125 world championship no help what so ever from the acu in terms of a team with backing. up against the likes of gubian, Karim with backing from the french federation, Grattarola from team italia and i believe Gomez is in the RFME team.

there is no wonder when you look in the top 7 of world championship there are 5 spaniards!

why is nothing been done??? Pay more fee get more back up, but is that what everyone wants?

bikespace, on Sep 16 2006, 03:43 PM, said:

French Scorpa
Italian Beta
Spanish GasGas/Sherco
Japanese Honda

We don't have a motorcycle industry. I'm sure we'd find it easier to get funding if we did. Anyone fancy riding aRoyal Enfield next year, no wait, they're Indian.
If we had a motorcycle industry we'd have a damned site more chance of getting funding for the sport. I don't suppose there's much chance of that happening though.

We can't always blame an organisation that we pay very little to for every weakness in the sport. People don't seem to realise that much of the money we give to the ACU is for insurance, not to fund bigwigs holiday trips.

The french don't support any 125cc riders on scorpa, gubian is on Sherco Karim and cervantes Gas gas morrel sherco.
Gratterola sherco
Don't think Gas Gas support the rfme but Gomez is on that make.

Have seen a fair bit of ACU reps at most of the WTC and euros this year none appeared to be "on holiday". Now what they could do is several things but I am of the opionion that all my suggestions would cost.

TRICKYMICKY, on Sep 16 2006, 06:33 PM, said:

AUTO CYCLE UNION?- Try a name change for a start,something the younger (or even older ) generation can relate to . And if you can manage that we might start to believe that some of the ancient old duffers trying to give speeches at the annual dinner are actually doing something worthwhile and not just hangers on...

Okay suggest a name, and we can all have a vote on it. How calling it say Moto gb will improve things/ remove over age volunteers/create wonderful dynamic youthful committees awash with startling ideas and money passes me by. Please explain

Right I will take my devils advocate hat off now.