[The Addict]

Great explanation of how things work at the ACU John, enlightend me for one. Can you give a run down of what happens to all the tenners that go into the kitty via the licence and how the money is distributed back into the sport and what for.

This post has been edited by Betarev3: 08 October 2006 - 03:59 PM

[scorpa3]

By the time the ACU send out a hand book to every trials rider, I shouldn't think there is an awful lot left out of the original tenner we pay. Now- road racers etc pay a lot more for their licences than we do for our registration.
I wonder who is subsidising who?

[The Addict]

Pete, just what I thought, a tenner to process the licence, make the thing, send it out with the book, does nt add up really does it. Alot of people say the ACU dont do enough for the sport but it looks like we are ourselves not helping to fund it, no funds no help surely.
On the point of Road Racing not sure how that covers much buy itself for the £35? wheres any of the money coming from?
If all the tenner is admin costs whats the point in having one?

This post has been edited by Betarev3: 08 October 2006 - 07:55 PM

[John Collins]

I am fairly sure there will be quite a lot of posts on " Where the money goes etc"

Please accept that I am not trying to duck issues - but other than the acounts sent to all Centres - there will be many that believe that Web or paper etc is not the place where financial details need to be debated.

There are many reasons for this - however - I will declare that I am sitting on the fence on this one - and I "think" that the time is fast approaching when a lot more clarity will need to be given to all our riders/members etc. However I am only one Director and it would not be appropriate - for me to take such decisions - as it needs a lot more discussion etc - and it is already often discussed - so please just a little more time on this one.

There are however some fairly simple things that can be explained - without fear of commercial interests etc - and this post is one of them ( so thankfully do not have to start on a too negative approach)

Trials riders pay £10 - for a Trials Registration. R/Race/MX/Enduro/ Tack pay £40 ( 2006 )

From the £40 licence fee - £10 represents the amount it costs to pay for the handbook - and post it out.

Also of course as some have already stated - to issue the licences/ registrations there is a cost ( staff/ machines/plastic/ and the big one postage - form out - then licence out)

In addition - after the numerous complaints ( correct and justified) about poor ACU communication - the ACU magazine has been introduced for quite a few years.

OK - could we save this money ?

Practically every single piece of legal advice we have taken( and paid heavily for) indicates that the Handbook is essential, and this is now more or less cast in stone.

It costs a lot to produce - and a huge amount to post. Lots of discussions have taken place - and still do re cutting cost eg only issue loose leaf sheets of changes each year, let Centres distribute them, just put it on line etc etc etc. Huge amounts of time spent on this - often with proffessional advice - but situation at present is that Handbook gets sent out.

Magazine is more debatable - pro's and con's.


At the end of this - The Handbook & magazine - swallow up the £10 registration and £10 from every licence of other disciplines. In fact with increased postal charges - as well as increased production costs ( compare thickness this year of say 5 years ago?) I see no way £10 will actual cover it in future

Summing up then - in all the disciplines this £10 is well and truly gone - which leaves the income to play with the £30 left from the licence - or in our case - the Trials levy each time we ride.

[The Addict]

So actually John there isnt much money to play with in the first place? not something i had realised in the past. Lets say I would like to see the ACU help out some of our top youth riders with funding or even our top up and coming adult riders, would i be correct in thinking the ACU just does nt have the funds available. Would there be a way of us being able to contribute to things like this happening in the future through our sport.

[overthehill]

perhaps you can tell me John -
why is trials different to other disciplines in having a levy and a cheaper licence? - surely it would be easier to have one licence system.

up here in 'gods country' the ScottishACU run a different system and we have to pay £42 for a licence but pay no levy per event.

interested in the thinking behind ACUs decision.

i can guess the thinking behind SACUs decision.

[Kinell]

The ACU handbook is costly to produce and expensive to mail out, I've had one sent to me for the last 4 years but never once picked it up and read it! What about the families that have 2 or 3 ACU members living in the same household, do they get one each? If yes, that is simply a waste of time, money and paper (save a ******* tree or two...)

I would be quite happy to sign a disclaimer on my ACU trials registration form, requesting my copy of the "Trials" bit to be emailed out to me and any funds saved to be spent on Youth riders etc.

Surely, sending an email out requesting a 'read receipt' would cover the legal beagles perspective?

[AtomAnt]

Whilst were on this subject and picking up on what Betarev3 said, wouldn't it be possible to have 2 registration cards of different colours. one of the normal orange at the said tenner and one in another colour for say £20 for those who want to donate an extra tenner to help you fund your youth program. Being purely optional, it means the people who want to help the youths have a way of doing it.

[John Collins]

There is a danger of dividing up into lots of threads here - so I will try to sum up popints made.

I am not going to play the ACU hat on card - and state ACU has no meoney to help youth etc - what I hope I have shown is what happens to the " Registration Fee" - which was the question. There is still the money collected from the levy - or licence ( other facets).

As with all things money - it is now a question of dividing that amount up - and setting priorities. Money is set aside to help train youth riders - as it is for Team participation, etc - but also of course we must pay our corner in the respect of administration, legal fee's, postage, phone, electric, meetings, reprersentation in land access matters, overseas stewards etc etc etc - and as stated I will try to return to sme of this in future.

So - no - it is not true to say the ACU has no money from Trials etc - but it is true to say that there is no huge bottomless pit. It is 100% not true to say that our Trials money goes to support Road Race etc. It is true - as with every one of us - that we have to make decisions about priorities etc. It is also true - that it is impossible to please everyone - as these posts have shown before. Something someone thinks is a high priority - may seem less important for others who have a different persopective - and so it comes down to trying to achive a balance. I will try to return to this in the future.

Re - Licence or Levy - very good debatable point - and if you wish we can expand on this.

Basically in our Trials - the more you ride - the more you pay. Ok that may not always be the best way of raising revenue - but we think it is the fairest - but this has always been a debatable point.

It does allow eaase of entry into our side of the sport - and it does allow someone to dig out the bike and ride a few times a year without two much cost.

I suppose it comes down to what is the best 100 licences at £30 or 3001 rides at a £1?

For us at present we think the levy system is best - again - a good separate post if you like - no problem opening up this topic.

Re Handbook - I am afraid the idea of signing a disclaimers etc may well seem like a good idea - but in most things is far from a watertight solution. Equally the one book per household will just not hold up. Obviously it should - and common sense would make us think so - but you have to acept that there are one hell of a lot of " try on claims" each year - and I mean one hell of a lot. We have to follow the advice given - although it is constantly reviewed - and that is that our riders should be given a handbook. I do see some opportunities to save costs by doing theis electronically in the future - but we are not quite there yet - although already the option of a CD instead of Handbook is already being used - so think we are moving in right direction.

It is a waste when someone gets more than one handbook - it is better than it was - but still work to do here.

The question of collecting in £20 instead of £10 - sounds OK - but we have to watch we do not creat an administarative nightmare which may cost more to run than it collects. It was only two years ago after all that the whole business of licence/registration issue was in chaos - with people waiting months - this is now sorted I think. If we wished to pay £20 instead of £10 - whichever way you look at it - this is just a method of collecting donations toward a particular item - and there are much easier ways of doing it - eg just setting up a donation fund etc with those who wish to contributre sending in a donation - money " ring fenced" and not used for any other ACU purpose whartsoever - at end of each year full account of money in - and money out published for all to see on Web sites and Press ? ( another post topic I think)

Young riders are being trained/helped at the moment - possibly the way that is done may need looking at - and I know will be within next 14 days - so again watch this space.

I think the whole issue of helping youngsters is quite emotive - and there are often some very conflicting views - and there is a lot to debate. Good subject - not afraid to try - but again I think a separate thread needed.

[Paioli]

would it not be possible to send out only the relevant parts of the acu handbook to the riders competing
in there relevant disciplines, eg trials section to trials licence applicants and so on, i must only read about
10% of the handbook meaning nearly 90% will never get read, still the same number of books going out
but well over 75% less raw materials used and maybe even a saving on the new postage charges!

[jack_h]

bit off topic but im curious to know why we need to pay the ten pounds for the handbook and lisence card.

[AtomAnt]

jack_h, on Oct 11 2006, 08:54 PM, said:

bit off topic but im curious to know why we need to pay the ten pounds for the handbook and lisence card.

Please see This thread and post your questions there. Thanks

[rabie]

i don't think its possible to distinguish who rides what, *and* so many parts are compulsary that the economies of scale would make it inefficiant to do as you propose