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Betarev3, on Oct 11 2006, 07:08 PM, said:
I was going to do a separate post regarding the Trials Licence itself but here goes. As it is blatantly obvious we pay our tenner for it and in return get a quite good quality card and big heavy book, in my experience the book swiftly gets chucked in the bin quickly followed by the glossy ACU mag. The only reason I bother to have the licence in the first place is in the very, very unlikely chance I will be asked to show it at a trial. Never happened yet and probably wont but I don’t want to drive 200 miles on a Sunday to be told I cant ride, so that’s the only reason why I have one.
If I thought, my ten quid would be helping fund the sport I would be more willing to pay more for it, maybe not much more but certainly more than ten quid. Is the ACU Trials licence simply a expensive admin exercise? why on earth do we even need it, surely better to not have the book that most of us throw away and have very little use for in the first place. The card is actually quite good quality with a photo? Why? ,must cost quite alot to produce. I would much rather that ten quid be paid and actually do something for the sport than simply be used up in admin costs.
John could you let us know what the point of the licence is? not having a go but I just cant work it out, the book is available to be viewed in its entirety on the ACU site so why send it out. If people don’t have access to a computer they could request with the information a copy of the Trials section only. A disclaimer can be put on the licence application stating that the applicant has read the information via the site if it is an insurance problem.
I have no idea how many licences are issued in a year but there are approximately 3000 registered members on TC and I will take a guess that there are at least that number riding in the UK, maybe more. Multiply that by ten quid and its 30K less admin. If the cost of the licence process could be brought down significantly by getting rid of the book and fancy photo card there should be some money left rather than a loss as it is now.
30K will not represent a huge amount of help within a sport but it may be a start or bit of help for the youth riders.
Thanks for all the information John, keep it coming
If I thought, my ten quid would be helping fund the sport I would be more willing to pay more for it, maybe not much more but certainly more than ten quid. Is the ACU Trials licence simply a expensive admin exercise? why on earth do we even need it, surely better to not have the book that most of us throw away and have very little use for in the first place. The card is actually quite good quality with a photo? Why? ,must cost quite alot to produce. I would much rather that ten quid be paid and actually do something for the sport than simply be used up in admin costs.
John could you let us know what the point of the licence is? not having a go but I just cant work it out, the book is available to be viewed in its entirety on the ACU site so why send it out. If people don’t have access to a computer they could request with the information a copy of the Trials section only. A disclaimer can be put on the licence application stating that the applicant has read the information via the site if it is an insurance problem.
I have no idea how many licences are issued in a year but there are approximately 3000 registered members on TC and I will take a guess that there are at least that number riding in the UK, maybe more. Multiply that by ten quid and its 30K less admin. If the cost of the licence process could be brought down significantly by getting rid of the book and fancy photo card there should be some money left rather than a loss as it is now.
30K will not represent a huge amount of help within a sport but it may be a start or bit of help for the youth riders.
Thanks for all the information John, keep it coming
John Posted this...
John Collins, on Oct 11 2006, 08:22 PM, said:
OK - But I thought I had recently (I know I have in past explained some of this).
We actually do not have a " Licence" but a Registration card. This may seem like pernickety - but it is a fact.
To get our "Registration" or Enduro licence - unlike all other disciplines - we do not need a medical - only self declaration.
If you look into Sporting Code section of Handbook - You will see that all other facets are described as a “race" or speed event. Trials and Enduro or not.
This brings me back to handbook. Obviously the Trials section is only a small part - but there is a lot of other info in there as well.
For example - the Sporting Code deals with a lot of the requirements for our Sport in general - all disciplines. In here it will tell you about your rights, right to Protest/Appeal/Time scale etc - as well as the constitution of the ACU etc - Rules of Union etc.
I know people do not always read it - but that is your prerogative - and probably one of the reasons I wrote the lengthy piece about structure of ACU etc as my first contribution. All this is actually in the book.
Every time you ride - you pay for Insurance. We do not work on an annual basis - but a per event basis.
You pay for Insurance - you should - probably –( must?) be told what you are getting - all in Handbook.
My son - rides around 40 times a year - I am sure he rarely reads the Handbook - but I recently heard him talk about someone protesting the score an Observer gave a rider. I heard the same thing from some well known riders during 2007 - total nonsense - you cannot for example Protest about your Observed score - all listed in the book.
There is actually quite a lot of info in it - it is a lot of work - especially at his time of year when it is due at printers.
I have already said - there may be possibilities in the future of doing it totally electronically - but there is still a way to go - so it certainly will happen in 2007.
Re signing disclaimers that you have read it/ accepted you have seen it etc- I am tempted to say that such disclaimers are not really worth the paper they are written on - this is not true - they are some use - mostly in establishing the size of a proven claim - but generally you cannot sign your " rights" away in this manner .
I stated that we have taken (and paid for) legal advice on these matters - and the handbook will stay – certainly for now -regardless of whether we are convinced it is worth it.
Re - plastic cards - they are not actually all that expensive to produce - as previously stated it is the postage that really costs - and of course as BetaRev3 has just said there is an administration cost.
BetaRev3 is also fortunate perhaps that he has not been asked for his - I certainly have in the last dozen or so events I have ridden in – they may have been picking on me of course – but I doubt it as in some events they had no idea who I was. Certainly in this Centre is would be extremely rare not to be asked to see this registration card. Often those who “forget” their card – put down the number – and only yesterday I saw a letter from a Club or Centre who were checking on the numbers they were given .
The Insurance Company - quite understandably is quite keen that they are insuring people who we have on record so to speak – and they request a Licence/Registration system.
Without anything – i.e. licence or registration we would have no idea who our Trials riders were. We could tell that there may have been 100 rides in a certain period from Insurance declarations – but would that be 2 riders riding 50 times each – or 100 riders riding once?
This has all been looked at in past – and again it is really not going to change for 2007.
The fact remains – as I thought I had explained that our £10 is taken up.
The amount in the pot – is from the Levy – or in the case of other disciplines the remainder of the licence.
We are going over old ground. The real debate for 2007 needs to be – how many riders should be supported etc - qualifications for selection – or no selection etc etc etc.
Some of these other topics need to be on separate threads - or there is a danger that once again the season will start - and the Youth Training/Support will not be an effort which everyone has had a chance to comment on/give views etc
We actually do not have a " Licence" but a Registration card. This may seem like pernickety - but it is a fact.
To get our "Registration" or Enduro licence - unlike all other disciplines - we do not need a medical - only self declaration.
If you look into Sporting Code section of Handbook - You will see that all other facets are described as a “race" or speed event. Trials and Enduro or not.
This brings me back to handbook. Obviously the Trials section is only a small part - but there is a lot of other info in there as well.
For example - the Sporting Code deals with a lot of the requirements for our Sport in general - all disciplines. In here it will tell you about your rights, right to Protest/Appeal/Time scale etc - as well as the constitution of the ACU etc - Rules of Union etc.
I know people do not always read it - but that is your prerogative - and probably one of the reasons I wrote the lengthy piece about structure of ACU etc as my first contribution. All this is actually in the book.
Every time you ride - you pay for Insurance. We do not work on an annual basis - but a per event basis.
You pay for Insurance - you should - probably –( must?) be told what you are getting - all in Handbook.
My son - rides around 40 times a year - I am sure he rarely reads the Handbook - but I recently heard him talk about someone protesting the score an Observer gave a rider. I heard the same thing from some well known riders during 2007 - total nonsense - you cannot for example Protest about your Observed score - all listed in the book.
There is actually quite a lot of info in it - it is a lot of work - especially at his time of year when it is due at printers.
I have already said - there may be possibilities in the future of doing it totally electronically - but there is still a way to go - so it certainly will happen in 2007.
Re signing disclaimers that you have read it/ accepted you have seen it etc- I am tempted to say that such disclaimers are not really worth the paper they are written on - this is not true - they are some use - mostly in establishing the size of a proven claim - but generally you cannot sign your " rights" away in this manner .
I stated that we have taken (and paid for) legal advice on these matters - and the handbook will stay – certainly for now -regardless of whether we are convinced it is worth it.
Re - plastic cards - they are not actually all that expensive to produce - as previously stated it is the postage that really costs - and of course as BetaRev3 has just said there is an administration cost.
BetaRev3 is also fortunate perhaps that he has not been asked for his - I certainly have in the last dozen or so events I have ridden in – they may have been picking on me of course – but I doubt it as in some events they had no idea who I was. Certainly in this Centre is would be extremely rare not to be asked to see this registration card. Often those who “forget” their card – put down the number – and only yesterday I saw a letter from a Club or Centre who were checking on the numbers they were given .
The Insurance Company - quite understandably is quite keen that they are insuring people who we have on record so to speak – and they request a Licence/Registration system.
Without anything – i.e. licence or registration we would have no idea who our Trials riders were. We could tell that there may have been 100 rides in a certain period from Insurance declarations – but would that be 2 riders riding 50 times each – or 100 riders riding once?
This has all been looked at in past – and again it is really not going to change for 2007.
The fact remains – as I thought I had explained that our £10 is taken up.
The amount in the pot – is from the Levy – or in the case of other disciplines the remainder of the licence.
We are going over old ground. The real debate for 2007 needs to be – how many riders should be supported etc - qualifications for selection – or no selection etc etc etc.
Some of these other topics need to be on separate threads - or there is a danger that once again the season will start - and the Youth Training/Support will not be an effort which everyone has had a chance to comment on/give views etc
Betarev3 posted this...
Betarev3, on Oct 11 2006, 09:11 PM, said:
John, thanks for the reply again and detail, cant reply much tonight, tomorrow maybe. Just a couple of points, reg card, never ever been asked for it, done lots of trials all over the counrty. Turn up at a Road race event, no licence no ride thats it, no arguments, no writing down the number because you ve forgot it. You do road racing you dont forget it ever or it will cost you dearly.
If no-ones checking them or the numbers or the photo? whats the point, we could all not buy one and still ride, may not be popular for that comment but its true.
Info in the Book, yes very well written and detailed but its already on the ACU site, every page, every detail, why waste the money posting it out and producing it for us. Road racing yes, a must due to all the bike info, classes etc etc.
Just
If no-ones checking them or the numbers or the photo? whats the point, we could all not buy one and still ride, may not be popular for that comment but its true.
Info in the Book, yes very well written and detailed but its already on the ACU site, every page, every detail, why waste the money posting it out and producing it for us. Road racing yes, a must due to all the bike info, classes etc etc.
Just
oops - changed it now.. Trying to keep you posting in the right places is wearing me out. 
been back riding Trials now for just over 14 months and its never been asked for at a Trial, that reminds me, must dust it down tonight just incase I have to show it tomorrow 
