[AS iow]

In Feb 2005 i attended a one day ACU coaching course in Devon at my own expence, the course had nothing to do with how you rode a trials bike but more of the H.S.A, child protection, and legal side of things which was all very intresting.
Next i get a little book in the post which requires that you spend 25hrs with an experianced trainer and then i can apply to become a ACU coach, now if i lived in yorkshire fine, but as i don't think there are any ACU coaches in the Southern centre, let alone on the IOW i'am a bit stuffed.
So i wrote to the ACU explaning this and there reply was that i could attend a 2 day professional coaching course @ a cost of £360. But that would be plus traveling, and accomadation etc which = nearer £600 of my own money.
So i decided against this and forgot the idea.
Now this year the IOWMCC have produced 3 British champions, and one that is third in the world and help win the TDN for Brition.
Now all of these riders and more would say that i have helped them, but according to the ACU i am not aloud to tell a beginner that he is in the wrong gear. The people who have just started trials need the most help, but experianced riders are not aloud to past on thier know how because they haven't got the paper work.
Would it be better if you could apply to the ACU to coach with a track record and say approval from your club & centre.
I would love to pass on some of my 37yrs experiance in trials to people free, but i can't, and i expect there are lots of older riders out there in the same situation.

[Nigel Dabster]

Of course you can help others its just that it must be done informally.

Just the same as Chris has a qualified teacher at his school who has spent 3 years at college learning how to impart knowledge how to handle kids lesson planning administration and the like it would not be acceptablefor a trainer sanctioned by the ACU not to have fulfilled a minimum level of health and saftey first aid etc. I understand that part of the ACU trainers training is based on observation of the trainee coach.
Once a trainer has done these things in theory he has the potential to go out and train your kids where you can be sure that he has the basics of care and responsibilty satisfactorily suitable to look after someone elses children.

Surely there is no short cut to that?

[AS iow]

Nigel Dabster, on Oct 28 2006, 07:45 AM, said:

Of course you can help others its just that it must be done informally.

Just the same as Chris has a qualified teacher at his school who has spent 3 years at college learning how to impart knowledge how to handle kids lesson planning administration and the like it would not be acceptablefor a trainer sanctioned by the ACU not to have fulfilled a minimum level of health and saftey first aid etc. I understand that part of the ACU trainers training is based on observation of the trainee coach.
Once a trainer has done these things in theory he has the potential to go out and train your kids where you can be sure that he has the basics of care and responsibilty satisfactorily suitable to look after someone elses children.

Surely there is no short cut to that?

The one day course covered most of this, i just think it would be better if you could start as a club coach, and then after a year or two you could apply to become a centre coach, and then after a further year or two move up to national coach, and then international coach.
This would make it easer for clubs to get someone to help the grass routes riders who are the back bone of trials in the UK. The ACU could still have courses for each level so that only the most experianced trainers could reach the top level.

[Mac]

I believe the 25 hours with an experienced coach has now been scrapped and a potential coach just has to attend the course you did, be assessed at a training day and have a current first aid certificate. The cost is also reduced from £35 to £25 a year.

So a lot easier to become a coach, and help the new riders whilst still protecting your self, from claims and the like.

We have four coaches in the centre and it was hard work to get them all past, should be better now.

[Paioli]

£600 invested by the acu to have a person in every one of there centre's coaching younsters
in how to handle a trials bike, some of the good reasons.

1. investing in the future , ie getting kids into motorsport and keeping them in the sport when they
become adults

2. where does the future champions come from , ie james thoseland started on a ty80 in trials i wonder
how much the acu have benefited from that lad, me thinks hell of alot

3. the rising pit bike problem, surely if the acu are seen to be investing in people like yourself who will
put your spare time into training the kids correctly, instead of leaving them to there own devices on
the streets causing havoc, surely a step in the right direction maybe even god forbid get some
government funding, then little billy wants a little trials bike for christmas insted of a pit bike

4. kids being educated on bikes and made safe, more funds for the acu and more trials bikes sold,
sounds like someones making money here

5. theres only so much of our hard earned cash we want to put into the acu we gladly give up our
spare time for FREE but to pay for the privalige to help the youngsters seems a step to far!!!

only one bad reason ,no help kiss all of above good bye !

[Mac]

None of our four coaches have had to fork out there own money, that’s paid for by the clubs or the centre who all belong to the ACU, so you could say they were funded by the ACU. They do give up there time for free, which is greatly appreciated.

[John Collins]

Yes certainly the initial requirements/costs for Training at Club/Centre level were too high/complicated/time consuming.

The T & E and also other disciplines ,and representatives from your Centres at General Council ( see it does work when people from Centres go through right proceedure) asked the Training Panel to look at it again - and this has been done - so the cost is now nowhere near the figures quoted. I do not have them to hand - but will try to get them .

The 25 hours etc is also gone.

However. I speak about Club and Centre Coaches - i.e those who wish to put training events on at this level. This is usually done for the benefit of that Club/Centre - with probably only small charges applied to cover cost of expenses etc.

There is also a Practice Permit available - for those to get together on a Club /Centre basis and do exactly that rather than the formal coaching set up.

Commercial Coaches - who wish to do this on a proffesional basis/ living etc is a different thing - and yes I think the charges will still be quite high and there will be more hoops to jump through.

Will try to get clearer details.

[AS iow]

So having attended the one day course, what would be my next step to abtain a coaching licence for club/centre level. and at what cost.
And thanks for taking the time to reply to this post

[rabie]

there is a fundamental difference between the bloke in a club helping out the newbies and the ex champion running a training school

the latter is running a business and seek acknowledgement of his skills / professional accreditation / etc and because its a business ACU members money should not be subsiding it (especially in relation to later legal cases that might arise)

on the other hand the former are what the ACU should be all about, however we need to construct a system whereby these people are properly certified in a cost effective manner but are still legally covered

constructing this is an immense challenge

BTW - how have the ACU benefited from James Toseland doing well ??? I didn't know the ACU got commission, how do they benefit ???

[Paioli]

TRY P.R or didn't you know that ???

[Mac]

IOW

You might be best talking to Debbie Walmsley at ACU, but the fee for a one year certificate is £25 to get thet you need to have attend the course at Rugby get a first aid certificate, and then get assessed by a trainer appionted by the ACU.

Not sure how there doing this now but we had a some come up and assess a couple of riders think it cost about £150 quid with travel.It would be cheaper if you went to the assessor rather than the other way round as we did, this may have changed as well.

I guess from your name your along way from Chesire but your more than welcome to tag on to our next new coach assessment when they get assessed in the new year, and share the cost.

[rabie]

Paioli, on Oct 31 2006, 05:44 PM, said:

TRY P.R or didn't you know that ???

what I'm getting at in subtle (or not) fashion is that the current funding structure of the sport means there is little or no incentive for the ACU to do something like that. you can not draw much / if any correlation / link between James Toseland doing well in road racing and a significant benefit - financially - to the ACU, that could outweigh the cost of training/licencing the trainers that do some of the tuition little lads and lasses on TY80s get..... ???

[Paioli]

rabie you only have to go on the acu web site to see JT endorsing a new acu backed roadrace series
great PR for the acu and all credit to them for doing so, but it's a fact he started young, and he started
in trials on a ty80, i also think david knight started in trials, two world champions different disciplines but
with a trials background, what i am trying to say is the next enduro/roadrace champion could be that
little lad or lass down in the isle of white on there ltttle 50cc bike, but without any training, guidence
and encouragement get fed up and leave the sport, without thoesland and knighter we haven't got much
to shout about !!! all our hopes seem to rest on alez wigg ,and i only hope he gets enough funds or
sponsorship to become world champion, of that we have just got to agree on.

[rabie]

for a variety of reasons i don't conclude that there is any real link between having world champions, et al and getting riders into the sport and whether training of youth produces champions

the problem is that money comes primairly from average joe clubman riding, not from world champions ridding (they probably cost us money) - thus i don't advocate chucking money down that avenue

[Nigel Dabster]

Paioli, on Nov 1 2006, 07:53 PM, said:

rabie you only have to go on the acu web site to see JT endorsing a new acu backed roadrace series
great PR for the acu and all credit to them for doing so, but it's a fact he started young, and he started
in trials on a ty80, i also think david knight started in trials, two world champions different disciplines but
with a trials background, what i am trying to say is the next enduro/roadrace champion could be that
little lad or lass down in the isle of white on there ltttle 50cc bike, but without any training, guidence
and encouragement get fed up and leave the sport, without thoesland and knighter we haven't got much
to shout about !!! all our hopes seem to rest on alez wigg ,and i only hope he gets enough funds or
sponsorship to become world champion, of that we have just got to agree on.

Alexz Wigg is World Youth Champion 2006, I think you mean the main series.

rabie, on Nov 2 2006, 05:26 PM, said:

for a variety of reasons i don't conclude that there is any real link between having world champions, et al and getting riders into the sport and whether training of youth produces champions

the problem is that money comes primairly from average joe clubman riding, not from world champions ridding (they probably cost us money) - thus i don't advocate chucking money down that avenue

I very much doubt if Alexz Wigg ( Ross Danby Lee Sampson or any other youth riders) have cost the ACU anything this year at all, let alone Joe clubman, I just don't see your anti youth policy has any foundation in truth.
You only have to look at the number of youngsters clambering for Alexz's autograph at hawkstone to see that he is doing a great PR job for Trials in general. He will be doing the same thing when he goes to stonleigh too, he is approachable , talks to anyone and can ride a bit too.

Why do kids play football and wear the club shirts because the stars do. Hopefully a few will get converted and it will mean another generation of riders coming through.
Who doesn't know the name of rooney? Whats he won?