49 replies to this topic

[bigwig]

Changing the rules for all events would be crazy as this would be very difficult to get observers as people have pointed out. But, i thought this topic was about the rules for the BTC. The riders that compete in the BTC are the only British riders that would compete in the World and European Championships.

[neonsurge]

I'm baffled by this discussion. Unless I'm missing some important nuance (and I've read every post twice now, just to make sure), surely it makes complete sense to run the adult BTC series under whatever rules the FIM decide to enforce at world level (whether that's non-stop, stop allowed or hop-and-bop) and leave the clubs free to use 22a or b as they see fit? Just like 2006 in fact. Why put our top riders at a disadvantage (no matter how small that disadvantage might be) when competing in European and world level events?

I really have no opinion on which rules encourage more skilful riding because at the level we're talking about there are few people on here who are able to make that judgement authoritatively - that's why the opinions of Alexz and a couple of others should be listened to most closely and that's why the ACU have invited all of the championship class riders (and the top experts I understand) to the forthcoming meeting at which a decision will be made.

The argument that having different rules for different events will cause observing difficulties is weak. Really, the rules aren't THAT complex...

Edited by neonsurge, 06 January 2007 - 09:46 PM.

[Nigel Dabster]

John, did alexz and ross get a letter asking their opinions?

[spud]

neonsurge, on Jan 6 2007, 09:39 PM, said:

I'm baffled by this discussion. Unless I'm missing some important nuance (and I've read every post twice now, just to make sure), surely it makes complete sense to run the adult BTC series under whatever rules the FIM decide to enforce at world level (whether that's non-stop, stop allowed or hop-and-bop) and leave the clubs free to use 22a or b as they see fit? Just like 2006 in fact. Why put our top riders at a disadvantage (no matter how small that disadvantage might be) when competing in European and world level events?

I really have no opinion on which rules encourage more skilful riding because at the level we're talking about there are few people on here who are able to make that judgement authoritatively - that's why the opinions of Alexz and a couple of others should be listened to most closely and that's why the ACU have invited all of the championship class riders (and the top experts I understand) to the forthcoming meeting at which a decision will be made.

The argument that having different rules for different events will cause observing difficulties is weak. Really, the rules aren't THAT complex...

:agree: totally

At BTC level our rules should be mirroring the FIM's for rider development.

[John Collins]

Sorry - should have mentioned - only Championship riders and top placed Expert riders ( as per final standings) probably got the letter. I doubt if the youth riders were written too as of course there were no final standings as the Youth element part of the BC is not a Champ and is restricted to a limited number of top Youth riders.

In hindsight perhaps they should have been written too - but I have to say that in the past - there has been some opinion ( possibly daft I know) that these top youth riders should not have been included in BC - and there has been some critisiscm that it is their prescence that has influenced format somewhat ( no roadwork etc).

I am fairly confident of what Alexz's and other top youth riders reply reply would have been - but I will try to make a point of speaking to Alexz and some other top youth riders before the meeting

[Nigel Dabster]

John Collins, on Jan 7 2007, 09:52 AM, said:

Sorry - should have mentioned - only Championship riders and top placed Expert riders ( as per final standings) probably got the letter. I doubt if the youth riders were written too as of course there were no final standings as the Youth element part of the BC is not a Champ and is restricted to a limited number of top Youth riders.

In hindsight perhaps they should have been written too - but I have to say that in the past - there has been some opinion ( possibly daft I know) that these top youth riders should not have been included in BC - and there has been some critisiscm that it is their prescence that has influenced format somewhat ( no roadwork etc).

I am fairly confident of what Alexz's and other top youth riders reply reply would have been - but I will try to make a point of speaking to Alexz and some other top youth riders before the meeting

Alexz feels so stongly about this issue, see above, he said he would make sure he attended the Forum in February.

[spud]

John Collins, I can't attend the forum but would like to express my view.... BC abopts fully the FIM rules.

If you could add my view to the meeting and other persons on here would like to do the same perhaps there could, or you could, guide us some way on how we could can voice our opionions without being present at the meeting?

Thanks,

Edited by spud, 07 January 2007 - 10:16 PM.

[Adsy]

Quote

John Collins Posted Jan 6 2007, 12:51 PM
Who the hell started all this anyway?

I did sorry John!!!

But all I am asking about is purely the British Championship, as has already been said, the FIM in local events etc, just would not work in my view.

But has to continue in the Blue Riband Championship of British Trials.

Lets give our lads a chance on the continent,

[Telecat]

As a matter of interest, when it gets to club level what rules do other countries run?

[YSB]

hi Telecat we ride quite a lot in france and they use Fim for there normal trials, but dont use time limits in the sections and we havent come across any problems,

[scorpa3]

YSB, on Jan 8 2007, 03:35 PM, said:

hi Telecat we ride quite a lot in france and they use Fim for there normal trials, but dont use time limits in the sections and we havent come across any problems,

You mean one rule for all?

[YSB]

No certain trials require certain rules, Pre 65 no stop, as ssdt,scot etc but modern day trials all fim. i am not against no stop rules but just want our guys to be able to compete on a level playing field with jony from over the water, at the moment we have 2 sets of rule within the ACU no stop and stop in a 1 rule. other countrys have also 2 sets , no stop and Fim, eg in feb the famous 2day Brianza trial in italy is run under No Stop Rules,

[TomsDad]

For what it's worth I observe quite often while my two lads are riding. Last summer they rode the Youth 2 Day at Scarborough. (BRILLINT EVENT) The club adopted the FIM stop allowed rules for the trial and it made life much easier as an observer. No worried looks from the riders, did I get 1 for a stop, no "well I'll count to 3 and then dock you a mark", no arguments, no hassle. Easy day with the punchcard.

Locally. (unde TSR22A) the rider knows he's stopped, the observer knows he's stopped, everyone watching can see he's stopped but knowone knows how many marks he's lost !!!

daft or what ?

Mike