27 replies to this topic

[scorpa3]

Rode in the Leamington Victory round of the Midland Centre Group trials championship today starting at Earlswood near Birmingham.

Between the third and fourth groups of sections the police were stopping bikes to check for tax, Insurance and number plates.

One rider was collared for not diplaying a tax disk on his Beta Rev4 (possibly a first?) A number of riders were caught without tax and ordered back to the start by the shortest route!

One or two others heard about the check and made their way to the next sections via a covert diversion!

Apparently a local had telephoned the police to complain about motorcycles riding through the village without any number plates!

What ever next? If this goes on I'll have to buy a horn

[bilco]

Quote

apparently a local had telephoned the police to complain about motorcycles riding through the village without any number plates!

sound's like yet another sad do gooder with no life of there own and has to spoil the life's of anyone who does have a life.

[AtomAnt]

bilco, on Jan 14 2007, 10:51 PM, said:

Quote

apparently a local had telephoned the police to complain about motorcycles riding through the village without any number plates!

sound's like yet another sad do gooder with no life of there own and has to spoil the life's of anyone who does have a life.

If you ride a bike on the road it has got to be legal and that's that.
Have you ever had an accident with someone who isnt legal ? It aint funny when you end up paying the bill !

[totalshell]

sounds exactly like the stereo type of off road bikes been ridden illegally on the road that we all get on our high horses about and say relates to chavs on the council estate and does not apply to us squaky clean legitimate sportsmen..


were the bikes not scruiteneed before the start
the riders and the club should bel taken before the acu and challenged as to thier particpation.

[scorpa3]

totalshell, on Jan 15 2007, 07:05 AM, said:

sounds exactly like the stereo type of off road bikes been ridden illegally on the road that we all get on our high horses about and say relates to chavs on the council estate and does not apply to us squaky clean legitimate sportsmen..


were the bikes not scruiteneed before the start
the riders and the club should bel taken before the acu and challenged as to thier particpation.

I agree with your first comment.

However, it is not the clubs responsibility to ensure the machine/rider are fully road legal, if this was the case there is hardly a trials bike in the UK that would be allowed to start a road trial.

A scrutineers job is to make sure machines conform to a specific set of requirements as laid down in the National Sporting Code Appendix 8. Not check the size of the numbers on a registration plate etc. This is totally up to the rider.

[totalshell]

i very much suspect that should an uninsured vehicle or one of unroadworthy condition participate in a road trial and be the cause of an uninsured loss the lawyers are going to come after anyone with money firstly the rider then the organisers and then the governing body
if the ssdt can scrut every bike and insist on number plate boards why cant all road trial organisers they cant be that much different in scotland can they..

[spud]

Agree with AtomAnt

Also the starter official (if riders sign on on the day) could note insurance, licence, number plate, tax disc details before a rider sets off. This may deter those riders thinking they can make a false number plates (if this has been done) and other dodgy stuff to make them appear legal.

As for the guy who complained, weren't there any signs up to say the event was running, and i'd be interested to know what the police reported back to him (if they did). I can understand his point if you had bikes flying past his home with riders standing up and mud flying off the bikes, think about it it would be cause for concern.

A thought; why not the organisers if they are running bikes near houses they drop a leaflet to the home owner and post something at the village hall notice board.

[scorpa3]

totalshell, on Jan 15 2007, 08:46 AM, said:

i very much suspect that should an uninsured vehicle or one of unroadworthy condition participate in a road trial and be the cause of an uninsured loss the lawyers are going to come after anyone with money firstly the rider then the organisers and then the governing body
if the ssdt can scrut every bike and insist on number plate boards why cant all road trial organisers they cant be that much different in scotland can they..

As far as lawyers coming to the club or the organising body, they would only have a case if either had failed to carry out their duty. It is clear in the NSC what that duty is and there is no mention of clubs checking for ROADworthy condition.
If we are going to check that every legal requirement has been met, there is going to be no road trials.
How many trials bikes have front and rear brake light switches, reflectors? etc etc.

I can't comment on what happens in Scotland, are you saying every bike is checked for a fully legal number plate?

[totalshell]

yes every bike has to have a number plate.

surely we are doing our sport and the public a diservice if we do not demand and check that every bike is registered has an mot and is displaying its registration number correctly. spud makes some valid points in navigation rallying even though the cars are not travelling at speed and speed plays no part in the result all of his reccomendations HAVE to be followed as stipulated by the governing body

in trials we have the 'not my job syndrome' which is quite alright untill the court decides otherwise. how would any of the above harm the sport. I know from this post alone that how the sport is been run at the moment has allowed one person to complain and for his complaint to be found to be true, by the police, at least in part and which you me and every trials fan should seek to remedy so that we can continue with our sport

Edited by totalshell, 15 January 2007 - 01:04 PM.

[bilco]

So does this mean a modern trial's bike should'nt even be classed as a road bike,after all you'd never get a proper number plate on the back of it,that's your first offence straight away.
As far as we know the rider's were only picked up for no tax,and as soon as the police would radio in the reg number they would of known if the rider did'nt have insurance,and that would mean the rider's would'nt even be able to ride back to the start.
Ok they did'nt have tax,just mean's a big fine.
This is about some stuck up busy body not happy seeing something diffrent going through his village.
We have problem's here with second home owner's that come down to there country house from there house in the city for 2 day's at the weekend and complain about everything and try's to get everything we do banned.Should imagine it was one of those brigade tat complained about the bike's

[totalshell]

whilst we all agree and are coming from the same ''trials are great and dont hurt anyone'' direction to mr and mrs highstreet in suburbia we are a peril on the roads, all stood up wearing garish coloured clothing on dirty coloured motorbikes especially on a sunday, just the thing they should be calling the police about and then been proved right when a number are found to be riding illegally, just like thoses chavs in the community housing

we absolutely have to have our house in order we have to dot every I and cross every tee.

Mr and mrs highstreet are at war with people like you and me and we are going to notice big time if we dont ALL play by the rules..

[scorpa3]

totalshell, on Jan 15 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

yes every bike has to have a number plate.

surely we are doing our sport and the public a diservice if we do not demand and check that every bike is registered has an mot and is displaying its registration number correctly.

I must say I fully agree that all machines should be taxed and insured, no exceptions, if you get caught without either (or an MOT on older machines) you should be punished accordingly.

However, let me get this correct; you are saying every bike in the Scottish has a fully road legal BS number plate as per legal requirement?

Also; if number plates are to be fully road legal (which I have no problem with) surely it follows that all aspects of the machine should also be 100 % spot on in the eyes of the law? Including things like tyres and tyre pressures etc?

Do you really think clubs should be checking for all this at every road trial?

Edited by scorpa3, 15 January 2007 - 05:02 PM.

[The Addict]

Just about avoided the old bill at the Trial yesterday, police clocked me at a junction with another rider and started to do a U turn to pull us over. Lucky for me I had the presence of mind to pull the other riders choke on and stall his bike leaving him to explain to plod where his tax disc was

Did see them though in the town and they did pull a lot of riders over later in the day, and from what I heard they used the computer to cheque for registration, tax and insurance details.
I have to admit I have ridden without being legal at road trials in the past and know many do at these events as per yesterday. I decided after crashing with another rider at the Wallace years ago that I was going to make sure the bike and myself were insured, taxed and held a full bike licence for the events. Had I been stopped yesterday I may have got off with a warning due to an illegal number plate, horn etc but I bet quite a few had the book thrown at them.

Always seems not much of a risk not having a licence, tax insurance etc until something goes badly wrong, I hit the rider on the road at a junction and almost pushed him in front of a car. Never ever thought something like that could happen at a trial but sometimes it will. What if a child suddenly ran across the road infront of you and you hit them? if it can happen in a car, it can happen on your bike, just think of the consequences afterwards let alone the guilt.

The full legal thing will be a nightmare for the modern trials bike, just cant see how a full sized number plate with all its weight will ever fit onto the tiny mudguards we all run. Tyre pressures as well? I do recall the Police stopping riders at the Colmore years ago for low tyre pressures there’s no way that will ever be sorted out along with trials tyres being only for off road competition use.

I may look into making the bike more legal after yesterday, bigger number plate, horn, speedo, if you get pulled by the Police and the copper is a bike hater best be as legal as possible.

Edited by Betarev3, 15 January 2007 - 05:33 PM.

[Woody]

I feel this is a topic that should never have been aired as it is going to produce all sorts of arguments and opinions but resolve nothing.

Lets be realistic. A trials bike is never ever going to be fully compliant with road traffic regulations. The police in this instance acted reasonably in my opinion and could if they had wanted, thrown the book at any rider in the event, wether they had tax, insurance and MOT or not. There are many things they could have booked riders for if they had a mind to but they didn't. I know this from experience as I had 13 summons many years ago from being pulled up on a TY250. Some derserved definitely but others just total nit-picking but once it is taken forward you're not going to get out of it so you end up prosecuted fair or otherwise. I'm assuming the police knew there was a trial taking place as I understood it to be that they had to be informed of such events.

There has to be some leeway in the interpretation of traffic regs with trials bikes and in this instance they were just checking for vehicles being taxed and registered - they could have asked for insurance too and issued producers. Some of the items a trials bike requires to be fitted with to comply with traffic regs are a FULL sized number plated, not a Yoomee sized one, tax disc on proper display, constant sounding horn and working speedo. All of these things will be wiped out at the first big crash down a section. The police generally recognise this and make allowances (such as the White Rose national in 2005) For the tax disc to comply it needs to be visible at all times on the left hand side of the bike. So how many riders would keep it clear of mud and visible each time they went onto the road - None - assuming it wasn't lying in a ditch somewhere. Everything is at the end of a computer these days so they know if you are legal or not.

As far as the SSDT and pre65 Scottish is concerned, bikes are not checked for legality. Last year they had to be fitted with rear facing number plates in the SSDT, such as the Yoomee plates, at the request of the police but no way were they road legal as they were far too small. They were a compromise. NO checks are made regards insurance, MOT or tax. It is all down to the riders responsiblity. Can you imagine the additional admin for organisers in having to check that information and more in order to ensure that each bike and rider comply with traffic regs. Highland Lassie may have a view... They then become responsible for allowing the competitors to take part so what happens if they have misread or misunderstood a document. None of the organisers are qualified legally to determine whether riders have bona-fide documents or not so imagine if there is an incident that results in legal action - that unqualified person is then liable for allowing the rider to take part. Totally unfair. Responsibility should rest with the riders not the club.

As regards car rallies, they are navigation events in name only. There are certain tricks pulled with the timing of stages such as unofficial checkpoints in a stage, where cars are halted for a period of time. This reduces the time they have to complete that stage. The original stage time that could be achieved within the speed limit then becomes unattainable and they then go balls out to complete it on time making it a speed event.

On a lighter note, many years ago my mate was competing in a road trial on his Bultaco on the Clee Hills, maybe the Vic Brittain, can't remember. His bike had played up and he was trying to bump start it with another mate down the road. He wasn't remotely legal. Along came a police car and stopped. He though bugger, that's me done. The police took an interest in the bike and were only too happy to help him get it going and get back into the trial. They both pushed the bike with him sitting on it to get it bump started. It did and off he rode. The number plate that was staring the police in the face as they pushed the bike along was BUL 325A......

Edited by Woody, 15 January 2007 - 06:24 PM.

[The Addict]

After loosing 3 tax discs in events I had it laminated and have stuck it to the back of the front number board, not exactly in the right place but its on the bike if they ever want to see it. Never gets covered in mud and has been there for 6 odd months and stood up too the pressure washer without coming off or misting up.