27 replies to this topic

[Speckled Hen]

Just following this thread and had a worrying incident on the Vic Britain 2 weeks ago. I was fuelling 2 riders out of my van and following them to strategic points to meet up with them. At one point I was waiting for them in a lay-by with several other vans when a small Peugeot car stopped and the driver came over to me asking who was running the trial. I asked why he wanted to know and he said he had just been run into a ditch by two trials riders riding alongside each other on a blind bend-he was really shaken up and said he was a biker himself but couldn't believe the way some riders were behaving on the road and intended to report the incident either to the police or at least the organising club.

If he did go and make a complaint this can't do us any good for future events in the Clee Hills area and he looked intent on doing something about it to me.

The other point is that on that trial, like lots of other road trials, the riders were tight for time to finish so a lot of them were riding flatout between sections-surely this is likely to lead to exactly the sort of incident I experienced and perhaps organisers should start considering either shortening these events or being a little more generous with time although its obviously difficult at this time of year.

[Highland Lassie]

Woody, on Jan 15 2007, 05:42 PM, said:

Highland Lassie may have a view...

She does indeed!

As far as the number plates go, both the organisers and the police recognise that a fully legal number plate is not viable on a trials bike...even if we could get them fitted, they'd be off first section on Monday morning! Woody's right - we compromised by working with the police to find a plate that they agreed was large enough to be read by other motorists, whilst we agreed it would last the pace out on the hill. Working with the police is definitely the way forward rather than seeing them as a hinderance to our sport...half of them are bikers of some form or another themselves!

As far as checking licenses, insurance, tax discs and other legal bits and bobs....anybody who has stood in the Milton on that Sunday morning will tell you that registration lasts long enough as it is without all that additional work! On top of that, remember we've got riders from over twenty different countries - if there's anybody out there that can read insurance documents in a wide variety of languages and knows the rules and regs for the EU and beyond, they're welcome to give it a shot...

It is solely the rider's responsibility to ensure that they and their bikes are fully road legal and comply with the relevant Road Traffic Acts. When they enter the trial AND when they register that Sunday morning they sign declarations confirming that they and their machine are fully road legal, so be warned - the Club won't be taking any flack for those who choose to risk everything.

Now is as good a time as any to highlight something to those of you riding this year - you may have your own insurance, but if you look at the small print you'll probably find that you're not covered for competing on the road. Most insurers class this as road-racing, so we supply additional insurance that can be used in conjunction with your own policy, and covers you for competing on the road for the duration of the trial. You'll get details in your entry packs, but it might be worth having a wee look at your documents just now so that you're not caught short in May!

[Woody]

Betarev3, on Jan 15 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

After loosing 3 tax discs in events I had it laminated and have stuck it to the back of the front number board, not exactly in the right place but its on the bike if they ever want to see it. Never gets covered in mud and has been there for 6 odd months and stood up too the pressure washer without coming off or misting up.

To the letter of the law if it is not displayed in the correct place then it is the same as not having one fitted, it's the same offence - although agreed, better to have it there than not attached at all.

I've suffered that one too, again years ago. Tax fell off the windscreen and landed face up on the passenger seat in an open top car. Got back just in time to be handed the ticket by some nazi worshipping **** who said 'I know you can see it but it isn't on display'......... I got done.

Essex Rider, on Jan 15 2007, 06:07 PM, said:

Betarev3, on Jan 15 2007, 05:32 PM, said:

What if a child suddenly ran across the road infront of you and you hit them?

Good

On the number plate front would you be allowed to have the licenceplate printed ona shirt for example?? or tape a rubber/cardboard one duct taped to your back??

No, if it doesn't adhere specifically to regulation then again, it is the same offence as not displaying one. As has been said, the SSDT is a compromise.

[The Addict]

Way I see it with the Police is if you can prove you have a tax disc on the bike, the bikes registered and insured and has the number plate on in any form you should be ok. Probably get a bit of a lecture but you should be on your way

[Kinell]

Woody, on Jan 15 2007, 06:41 PM, said:

Betarev3, on Jan 15 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

After loosing 3 tax discs in events I had it laminated and have stuck it to the back of the front number board, not exactly in the right place but its on the bike if they ever want to see it. Never gets covered in mud and has been there for 6 odd months and stood up too the pressure washer without coming off or misting up.

To the letter of the law if it is not displayed in the correct place then it is the same as not having one fitted, it's the same offence - although agreed, better to have it there than not attached at all.

I laminate my tax disc and use clear technosel (?) to stick it to the left fork in between the yokes. Works a treat until you want to drop the forks out for some maintenence

[spud]

One point which may have been missed was the police in there checks might have being looking for stolen machines. Shouldn't the centre's or the ACU be building bridges with us and the police, it wouldn't hurt for our own governing body to take the lead and show the police what a trials bike is all about? I'm in favour of what the police done at this event and anyone who got caught more fool you. I pay a lot of money to insure my bike and road tax it, so i've not a bad word for the police. I also don't like the way its being expressed the police are the bad guys on this thread, they are only doing there jobs.

[g4321]

Quote

Responsibility should rest with the riders not the club.

The main thing is INSURANCE, how would YOU feel if some numpty riding in a trial rode into your priide and joy, be it a car bike, horse wife whatever. Then you come to exchange details and certian numpty is uninsured - well how deep are your pockets. Admit it you would not be happy - dosn't matter whether it is a trials bike, white van, bike or car

Me I would not be very pleased - admit it neither would you. Some people I know would inflict a lot more injuries than the rider received in the accident.

Sticking a tax disk on a bike is no big deal - its unlikley you will get booked if you can show your tax disk - eg back of number plate but VISIBLE. As for number plates, I am pretty sure that your average traffic officer, especially if they are bike cops will know the score with a competition bike - cars with stupid fonts and sizes are a different matter - TAX, MOT & Insurance are all related - one phone call and the police can check up, if it aint taxed it aint insured and the RIDER is liable.

[bilco]

Make's me think back many year's ago when i was ridding schoolboy's,the police invited us to do one of there trial's with them..When we got to the trial we had to park about 400 yard's in a field away from the wood's we was trialing.Well we all rode down the road to get to the woods and most of us was unlicensed.Anyway a cop car pulled up to see what was going on,one of them got out the car walked up to the signing on point,the guy behind the table flashed a badge to him after that he turned round got back in his car and drove off again.

Do the police really care i doubt it.

[Hughesy]

QUOTE(Betarev3 @ Jan 15 2007, 05:32 PM)

What if a child suddenly ran across the road infront of you and you hit them?

Quote

Good

Are you for ******* real Essex rider! Whether said in jest or not, this type of mindless comment is completely inappropriate.

Don't forget that this forum is freely available to read by any member of the public with a computer and seeing a comment like this is unlikely to help our cause.

So get a life, grow up or **** off!

[Eiger]

We have to remember that the Police are made up of a cross section of society, just like the rest of the public, as has been mentioned earlier, and some are into bikes and some are not. In general most of them possess common sense and have something called discretion, a minority are not and will nail your hat on for anything they find. Sadly, the ability to use discretion and common sense is being consistently removed by the ridiculous practises imposed by the Home Office but that is another story. However, at a time when we are losing more and more land suitable for our sport we need to be completely road legal and should not be providing those who seek to eliminate off road sport with credible ammunition. If a member of the public contacts Police making a complaint then this has to be addressed. And before anyone says; 'well I once phoned for the Police after my house was broken into and waited hours', well I have been in that position, both as the receiver and the complainent and I could go on for hours about how things could be improved. But the fact is they have to respond to a call from the public and this would and does include a report from a person who has seen an off road bike driving down a main road with no number plate.
Any person reading this who rides a bike which is not road legal in respect of having the correct licence, insurance, tax, and at least something like a legible number plate should take up another hobby because thay are jeopardising our sport.
Eiger.

[scorpa3]

Eiger, on Jan 16 2007, 12:45 AM, said:

We have to remember that the Police are made up of a cross section of society, just like the rest of the public, as has been mentioned earlier, and some are into bikes and some are not. In general most of them possess common sense and have something called discretion, a minority are not and will nail your hat on for anything they find. Sadly, the ability to use discretion and common sense is being consistently removed by the ridiculous practises imposed by the Home Office but that is another story. However, at a time when we are losing more and more land suitable for our sport we need to be completely road legal and should not be providing those who seek to eliminate off road sport with credible ammunition. If a member of the public contacts Police making a complaint then this has to be addressed. And before anyone says; 'well I once phoned for the Police after my house was broken into and waited hours', well I have been in that position, both as the receiver and the complainent and I could go on for hours about how things could be improved. But the fact is they have to respond to a call from the public and this would and does include a report from a person who has seen an off road bike driving down a main road with no number plate.
Any person reading this who rides a bike which is not road legal in respect of having the correct licence, insurance, tax, and at least something like a legible number plate should take up another hobby because thay are jeopardising our sport.
Eiger.

Spot on Eiger, I couldn't agree more.

I didn't open this thread expecting to get into such a heated debate over the why's and wherefores or riding on the road, I only really wanted to let other riders know what was going on so that they could maybe prevent any future occurances.

I think we all agree that bikes must be taxed, Insured and MOT'd and to a reasonable mechanical standard. My bike is fairly close, the tax disc is clearly displayed facing the front, the rear number plate has letters close to the legal size and is near vertical, however I don't have a speedo or horn fitted.

Where this discussion became a little... shall I say 'contentious', was when it was suggested that it should be the clubs or the ACU's responsibility to check that machiunes are fully road legal before starting a trial. It's obvious that getting a trials bike legal for the road is going to be a compromise, or we just won't be able to do it.

Good on the Police for doing what they did on Sunday, if I'd been pulled for no horn I would have paid the fine and fitted one for future road trials. As far as I heard, no-one was fined for minor things like speedo's, or low tyre pressures, the Police acted very reasonably.

It's not a case of 'slopping shoulders' to state that it is the riders responsibility, it can't be any other way for the reasons already stated in this thread.

[cg125]

Woody, on Jan 15 2007, 05:42 PM, said:

Lets be realistic. A trials bike is never ever going to be fully compliant with road traffic regulations.

Now, I'm new to this, but my initial reaction to this statement is simply that if that's the case, trials bikes shouldn't be on the road. I'm surprised that people are trying to justify it.

It's not about whether the police are reasonable, friendly or anti-bike. If you ride a bike on the road, and it isn't road legal, then aren't you in the same category as kids tearing around on mini motos?

I know nothing about "road trials" but I guess they have their origins in the days when "trias bikes" as such didn't exist and people trialled whatever they rode. If that's the case then maybe a modern trials bike has developed too far to be appropriate for roads trials.

Edited by cg125, 17 January 2007 - 03:40 PM.

[scorpa3]

cg125, on Jan 17 2007, 03:40 PM, said:

Woody, on Jan 15 2007, 05:42 PM, said:

Lets be realistic. A trials bike is never ever going to be fully compliant with road traffic regulations.

Now, I'm new to this, but my initial reaction to this statement is simply that if that's the case, trials bikes shouldn't be on the road. I'm surprised that people are trying to justify it.

It's not about whether the police are reasonable, friendly or anti-bike. If you ride a bike on the road, and it isn't road legal, then aren't you in the same category as kids tearing around on mini motos?

I know nothing about "road trials" but I guess they have their origins in the days when "trias bikes" as such didn't exist and people trialled whatever they rode. If that's the case then maybe a modern trials bike has developed too far to be appropriate for roads trials.

Can't really argue with that, but what can we do?