20 replies to this topic

[Old trials fanatic]

Well the Bill got through it's first stage yesterday and is now to go to committee. It's on it's way.

So John what EXACTLY is the ACU doing / going to be doing to represent the interests of it's license holders?

This bill will have an effect on just about every branch of two wheel sport of which the ACU is supposed to be the governing body. strangely enough this also includes mini moto competitions.

So is the ACU going to adopt the "Ostritch stance"? or is it going to use some of our hard earned contributions to actively lobby parliament to preserve our right to follow and practice our sport unhindered and free from victimisation from those in parliament who want to get their name in the paper to try and justify their existance.

If not then we will go the way of the gun clubs, i live near Nottingham Gun capital of the UK and believe me there has been no lessening of gun crime since thousands of innocent members of gun clubs had their hobby taken away in a knee jerk headline grabbing measure, and off road sport as we know it will be just a dim and distant memory.

Before Dabster starts yes Nigel i have already written to my MP !

This is important to us all even if you dont think it will happen. It will if not now then by the back door at some future date. So come on John where does the ACU stand on this?? We ought to be told.

[Nigel Dabster]

If the gangsters in Nottingham want to go around shooting each other then they will law or no law.
The Dunblane and Hungerford gunmen were not gangsters, were they?

"ask not what your acu can do for you etc etc. have you organised your club to do anything?
are all off roaders against it? has anybody that has had a bike stolen not entitled to a view?
Organise a petition?

[PHYSCO]

dabster! topman!.

[Old trials fanatic]

Nigel Dabster, on Mar 3 2007, 07:49 PM, said:

If the gangsters in Nottingham want to go around shooting each other then they will law or no law.
The Dunblane and Hungerford gunmen were not gangsters, were they?

"ask not what your acu can do for you etc etc. have you organised your club to do anything?
are all off roaders against it? has anybody that has had a bike stolen not entitled to a view?
Organise a petition?

I was hoping to solicit John Collins view as T & E rep for the ACU.

My point about the gun crime in Nottingham was that it made no difference as you correctly say about the law banning handguns but a lot of people lost a sport they loved overnight because of a knee jerk reaction from MP wishing to be seen to be doing something.

I will be asking my club chairman about it tomorrow actually. Not that it makes any difference but they are AMCA.

As for bikes being stolen you dont surely think that a register will make a blind bit of difference do you ? Any more that the gun law made any difference to the number of gun crime in the UK.

Bringing the guns point into this may have been a mistake on my part because a lot of people have a overdeveloped emotional stance about guns so lets all drop the gun bit ? i will re this subject.

I still think it fair and valid to ask the ACU if they are going to lobby on behalf of their membership. The ones except you Nigel & Physco, and any others who would like to state their approval of more legislation, who are i assume in favour of it.

If it is NOT valid that the question is asked of the ACU and John then Andy or a moderator will surely remove the thread

[totalshell]

I have sympathy with your argument OTF why should we have more laws that arn't going to stop mini motos been ridden round the community housing projects but that will expect you and I to cough up (no doubt ) to register our bikes
the question we can influence is how will this work? how and when will be bikes be registered what is an off road bike is the bike in bits in 3 boxes off the road or off road etc etc we can influence whether this will be workable so that you and i can continue to have at no cost what we had before

Edited by totalshell, 03 March 2007 - 10:22 PM.

[fellonmelug]

I think this is just another way that this government has come up with to try and squeeze more cash out of the hard working people of this country . I cannot see it doing any good whatsoever all it will do is create more jobs for little jumped up jobsworths and cost us a fortune . I would not be suprised if the ACU has already been in negotiations as they may be able to make a few quid out of this !

[rabie]

Its a very valid question for OTF to ask, as the ACU is the biggest governing / sanctioning body in the UK for motorcycling and we should have people on top of this (i presume Dave Luscombe is doing something somewhere) - the ACU should be in the best position to lobby the government

i was at the last Centre Chairman and Secretaries meeting and this didn't come up, i will ask about (or John might reply first) to see if it has come up at a recent directors meeting

an archive of past director's meetings can be found here - http://www.nktc.org.uk/nktc_&_acu_meet...rules_menu.html

[bilco]

Your be lucky if the ACU would even want a sniff at this,if anything you'd probaly find there be all for it.

[John Collins]

Re - These posts.

Instead of one of my lengthy replies - I will try to clear this one up fairly qickly - or at least get the correct info.

It is fair I think to ask what the ACU is doing about this - or more to the point what has it been doing? - this is after all the sort of thing - where people like myself keep telling you - is so often the time and money is spent.

Many of my past arguments have indicated that the ACU as Governing body should be representing our interests - and this of course costs - and this is part of where our money ( licence & registration go).

It is not valid for a few bods to " assume" that the ACU has done nothing or is doing nothing.

Ask by all means - make un-informed decisions helps no-one.



So- I can categorically say that a lot of time and effort and meeting with poliitical bodies etc has taken place. I am sure there will have been visites to London & Gov't

Rather than me trot out my same old opinion - I think it best if I get Dave Luscombe - the man at the ACU who has been extensively dealing with all this to write out a sort of diary/report of events. I have pages of it - but I think Dave will probably give us a more readable account.

I have just phoned Rugby to instigate this - but find that he has crashed while riding yesterday and has gone for medical examination etc.

By tomorrow - I should now the score - and if he is off work - I will personally wade through all the paperwork myself and give you an update - that is a promise - and then he can bring us all up to speed later. I am faily sure I have already seen an article somewhere - it may have been T & MX ?


Anyway - I know a huge amount has gone on - I will get the details - however long it takes me.

Before I sign off - as this Bill will effect all Off Road sport - including H & H, Enduro, MX etc - would it be too presumptious of me to ask anyone who rides in any events under different organisations to the ACU - what efforts they have beeen making?

[Old trials fanatic]

Thanks for that John. I look forward to the summary.

I just thought it fair to ask. Sorry if i was being my usual cantancerous self

[rabie]

John Collins, on Mar 6 2007, 10:47 AM, said:

Before I sign off - as this Bill will effect all Off Road sport - including H & H, Enduro, MX etc - would it be too presumptious of me to ask anyone who rides in any events under different organisations to the ACU - what efforts they have beeen making?

that is the $64,000 question

[John Collins]

As I stated - I would try to give some indication of what the ACU had been involved in regarding the Bill in querstion.


Dave Luscombe is employed by the ACU and part of his many tasks include dealing with Govt, Industry and local Authorities.

He jhas had countless meetings with various parties including Govt ministers etc as well as numerous MP's. Lobbyst's and so on. This Bill is of course just another instance of legitimate motorcycle sport getting caught up in the ills of society so to speak.

I think we all recognise that the huge influx of cheap Chinese imports sold to anyone and his dog has had a detrimental effect on us - frankly people have become fed up to the teeth with riders hare assing around everywhere and causing mayhem - and consequently we all get tared with the same brush.

Anyway - enough from me. I contacted dave yesterday after readin OTF post and asked if he could send me a very brief synopsis of what the ACU were about and if they had an input into all this.

There is a lot of paperwork - so bvecause time is more than a littel pressing I have merely cut and pasted the initial reply Dave has just sent me to my request. I have not opened the link to Hansard - I will leave you bods to try to make sense of all this.

Will try to give more info as it is available etc - but hope this atr leat gives you some insight into the fact that then ACU are active and are trying to keep their eye on the ball

John Collins


Hi John
Sorry not to get this too you sooner – the office phone went stupid at around 4:45 so I simply ran out of time.
On to the Bill.

• The original Off Road Registration Bill was proposed as a Ten Minute Rule Bill by Chris Bryant MP for Rhondda . Following his speech, I met with Chris in London to discuss his ideas and propose the preferred option of the ACU – Datatag. This provides a registration system of sorts that brings anti theft benefits and is not Government owned. Chris supports the ACU on this way forward.

• The latest Bill was tabled by Graham Stringer MP for Blackly Manchester. He tabled his own ten minute bill soon after Bryant. The main difference was that his bill is supported by the Greater Manchester Police Authority so carries more weight.

• To combat this latest bill we held lengthy discussions with Owen Patterson, Shadow Secretary of State for Transport. We briefed him on our view and opposition to the proposed bill. His comments in the debate can be read in Hansard (http://www.publicati...#07030262000002 )

• I have quoted some interesting sections of the debate below that show some of our work…

The motor cycle industry, particularly the Auto-Cycle Union , has done good work in highlighting the problem, as have local authorities, the police and other associations.

Parallel to the enforcement of existing law, I would recommend another course and finish on a positive note. I draw attention to the Auto-Cycle Union local authority support unit which argues for turning this social problem into a sporting opportunity. It states that in the 1960s some terrible drownings in gravel pits encouraged swimming pool building. In the 1970s, roller skate parks sprung up to cater for that craze. Then came skateboards and most recently BMX cycle parks. All were first seen as social problems. All were embraced. Provision was delivered and the social problem disappeared. Now we have mini-bikes and off-road cycling. The ACU offers an incredibly cheap solution. The support unit provides advice to local authorities on how to identify the problem, its size and nature. It has a formula for establishing a facility, a network and venues, which can be community owned and run. What is exciting about the idea is that any tarmac area about the size of two tennis courts, which is incredibly cheap to provide, can be temporarily or permanently converted into a legitimate mini-bike venue for very little expense.
The mechanism that the ACU recommends is extremely cost-effective when contrasted with the sums being spent monthly by local authorities on enforcement. I talked to Dave Luscombe yesterday, who told me that Durham police have set up a recreational mini-bike project using the empty police headquarters car park on Saturdays. All that is needed is an area of tarmac the size of a couple of tennis courts, as I said. There are a couple of car parks in virtually every town that are probably unused at certain times. A few old cones mark off the track. In Durham , the children pay £5 for membership and £2.50 per day. Parents must escort the bikes to the venue and stay all day, and they have since become involved as marshals, turning the sessions into social events. The police work with shops that supply the bikes.
As the hon. Member for Manchester , Blackley (Graham Stringer) said, these machines are incredibly dangerous when they are badly maintained. The shops are getting involved—some of them are sponsoring equipment such as helmets and gloves. When these machines are used in an extremely dangerous manner around the streets, no one checks the tyre pressures, the brakes and the accelerator cable. Under the conditions in Durham , those who supply the bikes are closely engaged and the machines are safe. The result has been dramatic.
Clive Efford: The hon. Gentleman is not in the real world.

2 Mar 2007 : Column 1213
Mr. Paterson: If the hon. Gentleman listens, he will discover that there has been a 97 per cent. reduction in illicit mini-bike activity in areas where those schemes have been set up.
In conclusion, we entirely agree with the hon. Member for Manchester , Blackley that in recent years there has been a problem. However, rather than go to the huge expense of his Bill, catching the vast majority of bikers who cause no problems, we believe strongly that central and local government should work in partnership to enforce the large number of existing laws. They should also encourage and support legitimate recreational use, using free tarmac areas. Passing yet more new laws does not necessarily solve a problem and enforcing existing ones often does.
I could not support the Bill in its current form but I will recommend to my colleagues on the Conservative Benches that they let the Bill pass to Committee where we will table amendments enabling it better to achieve its very worthy aims.

The section above in red is the most important part of the debate.
The Government do not support this bill. The Association of Chief Police Officers do not support this bill. In essence this is a Back Benchers Bill and the has been stimulated by full post bags at constituency level.

The ACU accept that there is a problem with mini bikes. We also accept that there is sufficient legislation to deal with the problem. What there is not is enough police resource to achieve the desired result.

Whilst this bill, in its current form is of no use and could be damaging, by letting it pass to Committee stage, the motorcycle lobby – both ourselves and MCIA (we now have strong links in Government via myself and Craig Carey-Clinch) we will be able to argue our case and seek the necessary amendments to the bill which will enable a crack down on mini bikes illegally but leave legitimate sport alone.

[Old trials fanatic]

Thank you John and Dave.

This is more of what we need. Communication. Good work guys thank you.

Question why doesnt the ACU let us know more that they are working like this for us. I appreciate it and i am sure more of the members would not be so negative towards the ACU if they were made aware more often of the ammount of work put in on their behalf.

All positive points and ones that i am sure we would all agree with.

I would have no problem with the Police doing a "spot check" at a trial as i would take only seconds to do a datatag sweep of my bike.

Damn good idea. Wish i had thought of it

[bdmc]

Copy of documents recieved from the ACU

PRESS RELEASE

Transport Select Committee Motorcycle Strategy Report 2007


The Auto-Cycle Union (ACU) welcomes the publication of the Transport Select Committee’s (TSC) Report into the Government’s Motorcycling Strategy and its commendation of the ACU’s work with Local Authorities to proved safe and legal riding opportunities for young people.

At a time when the Governing Body for Motorcycle Sport is devoting significant time and resources to fighting implications of proposed Off Road Registration Bill (1), the ACU welcomes the Transport Select Committee’s own reservations about the impact of this proposed Bill on illegal riding.

Although in the matter of an off-road registration scheme the committee recognised that most agencies, including the police, do not believe it would work and does not support implementation if cost and administrative burden would be prohibitive, the TSC has confusingly come down on the side of off road registration ‘trials’, a contradictory finding, given the arguments presented in the Report and by almost every witness who gave evidence to Committee members.

In light of these facts and evidence to the Committee, plus briefings to MP’s, the ACU is disturbed that the Off-Road Registration Bill passed its second reading and that such little regard has been given to the experience and input of the experts called before the Committee.

The ACU’s Dave Luscombe is disappointed that this situation has been allowed to develop.
“The ACU is delighted that the Select Committee has recognised the work of the ACU in creating legitimate off road riding facilities for young people. However, it is shocking that in the face of so much evidence to the contrary, the Bill, proposed by Graham Stringer MP, who is a member of this committee and heard this evidence first hand, can go further than its Second Reading,” said Luscombe.

“Equally shocking for the sport is the total lack of consultation by those who have drafted this proposed legislation; a Bill that seems to fly in the face of logic, reason and dare I say common sense” he continued.
Copies of the Transport Select Committee’s Report can be found at:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...ran/264/264.pdf

The Off-Road Vehicles Registration Bill proposed by MP Graham Stringer (Labour, Manchester Blackley).

Following the second reading of the Bill, the ACU has held discussion with the MCIA, AMCA, BSMA, NORA, YSMA, BSPA and MCRCB as to the best way forward for the industry in light of the proposals. Further face-to-face meetings will be held this week and next to further refine the position of the sport.

The ACU has also lobbied the DCMS, DEFRA, DVLA and MDUK ensuring all agencies are aware of the significant and damaging implications of the Bill, as it is currently worded.

Dave Luscombe, who is heading the talks on behalf of the ACU said, “The ACU, as National Governing Body for motorcycle sport in the UK is doing everything within it’s powers to ensure that the full impact of this Bill to the sport is understood by those who supported it. The ACU are also working with it’s partners in the sport and industry to lobby MP’s and Government Dept’s ensuring that the sport’s voice is heard when the Bill goes to Committee.”

The ACU strongly encourages all of it’s members to write to their MP’s and express their concern about how damaging this proposed legislation will be to law abiding organised motorcycle sport.



If you require any further information please contact Brian George, ACU Press Officer 01788 566428 or via e-mail brian@acu.org.uk.

[Andy]

This is what my MP had to say:

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