[scorpa3]

Just picking up on the story about the Skelder Bank round of the Maxxis British MX Champs, where a number of officials made an error of judgement concerning a protest and were later suspended and fined (plus costs) for their error.

I appreciate that we all agree to abide by the rules of the ACU and the National Sporting code lays out a structure of penalties including fines, so we can't complain if we make a mistake and end up getting fined.....

But, is it a bit harsh to fine people who are unpaid volunteers?

[Kinell]

Very harsh if they are there voluntarily! Are you sure that they don't receive payment?
How much were the fines?

[scorpa3]

No, please don't get me wrong, I don't know the exact details of the case but that's not really the issue I was questioning.

I was just wondering how I would feel if I ended up being fined for an event that I'd been an official at, when I was there as an unpaid volunteer.

[Kinell]

scorpa3, on Aug 17 2007, 06:24 PM, said:

I was just wondering how I would feel if I ended up being fined for an event that I'd been an official at, when I was there as an unpaid volunteer.

I know how I would feel about it, very p****d off!
Can't believe they actually paid the fines, bet they weren't from Yorkshire

[ishy]

More than likely the host club actually pay the fine, otherwise the volunteer official would soon become extinct.

[Telecat]

The event was near Whitby so they could well be Yorkies>

[neonsurge]

I really hope that there's more to this than was reported in TMX because if those guys really were unpaid officials, off-road motorcycling (at least under the ACU banner) is in an even worse state than I previously thought. Investing many hours of your own time, often in adverse weather conditions to support the sport you love and enable others to do the same only to be dragged up before some "court" in Derby and slapped with a large fine for making an honest mistake? If it were me I'd be seriously tempted to tell the ACU to shove the fine up their a***, deal with any consequences and never have anything to do with running an event again. IF the details in the report are correct of course.

[AtomAnt]

How does the fine system work? Surely it has no legal standing if you don't pay. I can't see the ACU coming to repossess your house for instance!

[scorpa3]

AtomAnt, on Aug 18 2007, 03:42 PM, said:

How does the fine system work? Surely it has no legal standing if you don't pay. I can't see the ACU coming to repossess your house for instance!

As an ACU official we sign to say that we will follow the rules as laid down in the hand book oncluding the National sporting code. Being a paid official or unpaid seems to have no bearing on the situation. It states;

FINES
Levied by ACU court....... Unlimited fine.
Levied by National Club, Centre or Stewards.... Maximum £500
Levied by Clerk of the Course..... Maximum £500
Non production of licence.......... £10

Remember that there is also a process of appeals which also have a set fee. But appeal and have a protest upheld and you loose that fee as well.

Back to my original point; we can't complain about the fines as we have agreed to them by signing on as an offical, but isn't it a bit harsh to fine an unpaid volunteer?

[Kinell]

scorpa3, on Aug 18 2007, 04:41 PM, said:

Back to my original point; we can't complain about the fines as we have agreed to them by signing on as an offical, but isn't it a bit harsh to fine an unpaid volunteer?

Yes

[Slapshot 3]

Interesting, what's the scoop, I don't buy the rag very often and have missed this one. In any situation though you don't shaft the volunteers that ensure your events run properly, either that or a) you need to pay them or B.) the Acu needs a rethink on the National Sporting Code....not good what ever the scenario is

This post has been edited by Slapshot 3: 18 August 2007 - 04:21 PM

[Nigel Dabster]

This sounds like the friend of a friend story and is ripe for an eplaination from John collins, if nothing else to put the record straight.
I know for sure that if one of our club officials were to need to pay a fine then our club would pay I'm sure, but it really does depend on the cicumstances which we don't know about.

And if I remember when I used to get the centre magazine unpaid fines simply mean an indefinate ban from riding and i spose officiating.

Over to you JC?

[Jza]

So these people turn up on a sunday morning to sit and watch us lot splash around in the mud. Its often raining an/or miserable. They could stay in bed ad watch the motogp or something. Rather than let us down they make the effort to support us on our favourite sport and make it possible for us to play.

So they mess up...

We dont pay them.. how can we fine them?

Do you want these people to walk away from the sport.....?

Tell them if they mess up they'll be fines for their efforts...

That'll do it.

Utter madness

[Nigel Dabster]

Jza, on Aug 20 2007, 08:51 AM, said:

So these people turn up on a sunday morning to sit and watch us lot splash around in the mud. Its often raining an/or miserable. They could stay in bed ad watch the motogp or something. Rather than let us down they make the effort to support us on our favourite sport and make it possible for us to play.

So they mess up...

We dont pay them.. how can we fine them?

Do you want these people to walk away from the sport.....?

Tell them if they mess up they'll be fines for their efforts...

That'll do it.

Utter madness

Absolutely JZA, so good to hear from you as you were there and know the exact circumstances, can you tell us what the offence was and the fine?

[John Collins]

Not really all that able to help at this juncture on this – really for a few reasons.

One of the things I have been trying to do (for a couple of years now – after a non motorcycle argument in a pub) is prevent myself from making too many comments on something I now very little about – or more importantly do not have actual facts.

I am not always successful in this aim – but I try. I certainly do not know the cast iron facts of this case at present – but I do know that once you start dealing with the very commercial world of MX and Road Race all sort s of problems seem to arise from all sorts of issues and writs and counter writs seem to start flying around at a drop of a hat. Thank God in T & E to date we have been able to keep out of much of this sort of commercial scenario – and hence my lack of knowledge/experience in such matters.

I do know that if you start getting involved in prestigious events which involve contracts and large sums of money – and riders livelihoods – then presumably your duties as Clerk of Course etc change somewhat – and probably you are saddled with more obligations than you would really like. Probably most of us in this instance would prefer not to be involved .

I do know that if a Court of Enquiry is called - the people whom are appointed to the panel have to look at all the facts , all the implications etc and then presumably make impartial judgements etc

It is also probably correct to infer that whilst at the lower level we expect our Officials and Clerk of Course to act correctly – there would probably be an added expectation for those at the very top end to set an example etc.

One thing that does seem to stand out for me is that certainly at any serious level – I can see the end to expecting the main officials to always do all this for the love of the sport. At Trials - and to a lesser extent Enduro ( although that is changing fast) we still enjoy what could probably be termed as amateur sort of status – but when you start talking of very large events generating many thousands of pounds – is it realistic to expect the Officials to not get paid accordingly?

As I have said – I am afraid I do not know the facts – I am 100% sure there is a lot more involved than the snippet I read in the paper – and until I do now I cannot really add much more of any use