104 replies to this topic

[Beamish Owners Club]

I am interested in building a B40 on a new frame and don't really fancy the Miller 'Hi-boy'. Does anyone know of another frame maker other than Cheney? I have a lovely Cub with a hand built frame that I believe was by Roy Burgess - is he still making frames does anyone know and how to get hold of him?

Any help and advice appreciated!

[Andy M]

I saw a Cotswold framed BSA at a trial on Sunday made by Jon Bliss in Cheltenham. If you go to the classic trials forum and look at todays classics you can find a picture of one there.

[Beamish Owners Club]

Does Jon Bliss make frames commercially? I have searched this site and done a Google search and can't find any contact details for him at all!

[Woody]

01242 239055 - that may be an old number but it's the only one that I know of

Not sure whether he makes complete frames or modifies existing ones or either.

Edited by Woody, 11 September 2007 - 12:28 PM.

[Beamish Owners Club]

Thanks Woody, that's a start! Anyone ever heard of Roy Burgess? I wonder if these guys who make frames hide themselves away deliberately, I had a devil of a job finding Terry Weedy!

[Woody]

There seem to be an ever growing number of people who are making replica frames for older bikes now - at least 4 or 5 different types of James replicas being made I think - Whitton, Jackson, Wright, Holland, someone else.... Duncan Macdonald makes the Cub frames, Craig Mawlam and Mick Andrews have both had Majesty frames remade. Whether any of them could/would copy a B40 frame and modernise it I don't know. With the exception of Alan Wright's James replica (he also had Bantam replicas done) they are all quite pricey at £1100+ as far as I know.

[Beamish Owners Club]

Thanks yet agaain Woody! How do people find these frame-makers? Do you have to trawl through TMX because I can't seem to find them on the net! I have (obviously) a Beamish with a Whitlock frame but the frame on the Cub I have makes the Whitlock look rough so I would love to find the guy who built it, apart from anything else, I want him to make me a side stand.

I don't mind paying the money for quality, it's finding the right man is the trouble!

[Woody]

How do they find out anything at all, never mind the frame makers. The pre65 scene is like some underworld cult with everyone wanting to keep things secretive to gain every adavantage in machine trickery and preparation....

I've been torturing myself trying to make my C15 perform correctly for the last year and trying to get info can be more painful than being forced to watch ant and dec on a Saturday night.

OK, it's not that bad really and people can be helpful with ideas - even if a lot of them do conflict, but unless you are 'in the know' it can be difficult to find out who can do what and how to get in touch with them as they all seem to do these things as a sideline from their main businesses, which is why you don't see their services advertised anywhere I guess.

As far as I know, no-one makes a B40 frame apart from the Faber/Otter type and the guys that make the James frames may not do a one-off - Alan Whiitton for example will only do a minimum of 3 James frames at a time. May be worth having a word with Alan Wright (I don't have his number since he moved) as he knows everyone and may know who to put you on to for a B40 copy.

[Big John]

Alan Wright:

01789 751422

[Pocket]

Hi, I have trawled the net and books with no luck either. Certainly would be very interested in a lightweight replica C15/B40 frame too on the lines of the macdonalds cub or something similar as have plenty of unit BSA bits. Seems they don't think the unit BSA's are as competitive as a cub. Thought about defecting but you are talking a lot of money before you even start making it competitive which is why I would spend money on getting a decent frame

Steve.

[Beamish Owners Club]

Thanks chaps, I have a few leads now. I have a very trick Cub that I bought recently and it handles like a modern bike and stops like one too. I alsohave a C15 in a standard frame that I am having modified, it has Cub hubs so should stop I am told! I don't expect hte C15 to handle like the Cub but it won't be as expensive if I bend it either!

I want to build a B40 along the lines of the Cub with the best frame etc. more as investment than to compete. I am hoping for a lightweight chrome frame and a tank that meets the seat!

What problems have you had sorting your C15 Woody? I have PVL ignition and an Amal 622 wwith a 30mm inlet manifold extension and a slow action throttle on mine but I haven't fired it up yet to see how it runs. It was a bit lumpy at ow revs with the Monobloc carb and points so I am hoping it will run better.

[Woody]

Beamish Owners Club, on Sep 11 2007, 09:14 PM, said:

What problems have you had sorting your C15 Woody? I have PVL ignition and an Amal 622 wwith a 30mm inlet manifold extension and a slow action throttle on mine but I haven't fired it up yet to see how it runs. It was a bit lumpy at ow revs with the Monobloc carb and points so I am hoping it will run better.

I'm going to need the tranquilisers just thinking about this as the b*****d thing wrecked my ride in the Isle of Man classic and I haven't forgiven it yet, but, deep breath and here goes...

It's a standard bike apart from better forks and it has a Grimeca front wheel which was fitted when I bought it, subframe lowered, bantam rear hub and rear shocks moved but that's it - nothing trick about it and it's a heavy lump, looks a mess, but I like the way it rides. The engine is the problem as it fouls plugs and cough stalls at times, sometimes I can catch it and save a stall but it costs marks, other times it stalls. It did this in Scottish 2 day and buggered up the weekend, sometimes it was fine, others it was a bitch - too erratic to be carburation so in an effort to cure it once and for all I replaced the PVL with a new one after Scotland as I'd had enough. After that, problem cured and it behaved itself perfectly and after a good few events since Scotland, including 2 or 3 with a fair bit of road mileage I'm still on the same plug, not once has it fouled, although the plug is always black and the piston and head build up with carbon, so I'm assuming oil is being burnt. Anyway, good I thought, sorted, now it's running reliably and consistently I can concentrate on setting it up to run the way I want it to - soft as possible off the bottom so no clutching needed. So off to the Isle of Man and confident of a decent ride, but no, after behaving itself since Scotland I'm 3 sections in on day 1 and it coughed and stalled on the exit to the section and fouled the plug. It fouled the plug over a dozen more times which cost 2 fives and a few dabs, plus 12 on time through constantly fixing the bloody thing and changing and cleaning plugs. I won't mention the 3rd five that was caused by the front brake, which hadn't worked well all weekend, suddenly and inexplicably grabbing and locking with the grip of a deep sea clam on another easy section, launching me over the bars to land at the feet of Wrighty who, for a few seconds - which may be a world record - was rendered speechless by this display. The assembled spectators managed a collective ooooohhh as I spun ungracefully through the air. All in all, cost me what would have been a genuine 3rd place but the tranquilisers are doing their job and I'm almost over it now...

The engine has a triumph 650 piston (3rd different one in an attempt to get the compression ratio as low as possible - trial and error as I've no experience of what works best and this is one of the areas where peoples opinions vary greatly....) Amal 622 carb with two manifold spacers, amal throttle but a slow action is going on next, recently aquired a trials gearbox, standard road cam, PVL. Nothing radical.

The frustrating thing is there is nothing obvious that is causing it - after running fine it just started doing it again out of the blue, naturally at an event of the status of the Manx Classic, not a noddy club trial. I'm wondering if the oil burning is causing it so I've fitted a recon head tonight to see if that stops that as the head is the only thing that hasn't been renewed, bearings and piston are all replaced so I'm guessing oil is coming down the guides - the next ride will tell if it makes any difference...

Anway, feel better now that is off my chest but you did ask and it was good therapy venting off about it...

[Pocket]

Beamish I would be very interested how you get on with your enquiries.

Let me know how you get on.

[Beamish Owners Club]

Now that is what I call abad day Woody! Keep taking the tablets.

At the risk of being dumb, surely if your plug is oiling up you should be leaving quite acloud behind you? I am running in my Beamish at 25:1 on a fully synthetic and that isn't oiling up the plug. Have you looked at your carb jetting or have you been through that mill?

[Woody]

When it's running its ok, there is a bit of blue smoke but nothing more than the other bikes, so this seems acceptable, although it is definitely using oil. When it's been standing there is a lot of oil burning on start up and I don't know if this is due to wet sumping, oil down the guides or both. The new head is on now so I'll see if there is any difference this weekend at the inter centre pre65 trial - foot and mouth permitting

Carb jetting is what everyone else runs or thereabouts, 25 pilot, 110 main and 105 needle, so quite weak really. The carbon deposits on the inlet valve and piston crown directly under the inlet seem to indicate oil burning. I could do with a spare engine to build up really.

I was also thinking of getting a modern lightweight frame for the C15 made as mine is twisted a fair bit and beyond sorting as it's been chopped a bit over time. A new one would at least be straight. The only one available though, like the B40, is the Faber/Otter version and for one thing I don't like it it visually and another, it's oil in frame and has no frame rails under the engine so is not eligible for Scotland. I've been put off asking for someone to build one as everyone I speak to about the James replica frames says there is something wrong with all of them and that they have to have one or two things sorted after they've bought them, chain run out of line, tensioner no good, headstock cracking etc. - not what you want when paying £1200. And I don't fancy being the guineau pig for someone to build a C15 frame - I'd rather be buying a proven product but it's not possible. So I've just aquired an original C15 frame which is straight and I'll eventually rebuild the bike around that - once the engine is sorted.