11 replies to this topic

[jordi]

I have mentioned this in another topic, but felt it may be worth asking the question.

Years ago the ACU offered annual motorcycle insurance that covered usage on the road during a trial but was discontinued. Not sure why.
With clubs now having to offer additional RTA cover at a fee could it not be worth the ACU starting up the insurance cover again?

[Telecat]

Most riders don't take it up as Road trials aren't as common as they were. Even when they SHOULD take out the Insurance many don't. You only have to look at the Minder insurance at Youth events. Where it's optional there are only 10 or 15 takers but more than that in sections.

[mickwren]

The ACU have made several attempts to arrange an annual insurance cover and the short answer is that insurers will make this cover available but at a large cost. As Telecat says not all riders take out the day cover now even at the bargain price it is offered ( bearing in mind what it could cost you if something horendous happens when you are on the roads without cover). The ACU offer this insurance for the riders benefit and would encourage all to use it

[chewy]

Just last night we had a discussion as to how to improve the standard of riding in our centre and one of key issues was to get our youngsters out riding in national standard events; However when the cost of finding insurance for them came up this idea was dropped like a hot potatoe.
Surely the Acu (who appear to me to be agents for insurance companies anyway) must be aware of this problem and able to offer something that doesn't run into telephone numbers and hours of administration for already overworked organisers of events.

[John Collins]

It's a good question Telecat - and one would wonder why it cannot be done - but unfortunately as Mick Wren has pointed out - it just cannot be found at anywhere like a reasonable price - and even then there seems to be last minute hitches and small print involved.

The ACU of course are not an Insurance Company - and are not in fact Brokers. We arrange our insurance through a broker - and they have tried for a long time to find a suitable policy for our members - but without any realistic success.


As a matter of interest - not all that many Insurance companies can actualy " write" cover for motorcycle insurance. There are a alimited number of comopanies whom can/will do it - this means that while you see dozens of adverts offering motorcycle insurance - in say the back of Auto Trader - most of these are just brokers - and then have to arrange policies with actual underwriters etrc. This is where the problem lies - as these companies are not that interested ( and some 100% decline) when they realise the event is " part" of a competition. And yes of course they have had it all explined to them etc about how we only use the road bit to join up say one group with another or from one farm to another - but they are not inclined to offer cover.

I am certainly not an insurance expert - but have been told that one problem which seems to scare them - is that while they are insuring you on the road bit say between the start and the first group - once you leave the highway - you are often still in a Public place ( in Trials we usually are all the time) - and I am told they fear that if there was a claim they could be" drawn in" as one of the Insurers involved - and of course the last insurer involved until you left the road ( and here they probably worry about the definition of when you actually left the road - or are you still on it ? )

All this is still ongoing - but I must say I fear a good solution is not apparent at moment.

I would not wish to go into too much further detail on a Web site - but perhaps I can offer a hyperthetical example which is not too far from reality.


ACU to Insurance Co : We have lots of Trials on road - our Insurance cover covers riders once they are off the highway - we just need some RTA cover for when they are on the road.

Ins: But surely these machines must be insured to be able to be taxed and registered etc? Why do the riders not take out a policy same as everyone else

ACU to Ins - They can/do - but most companies insert a stupid clause saying that insurance is not valid when competing in a trial etc - and of course they are not competing while on highway - just using it to join up places.

Ins - Is this a big problem ? - have you got lots of riders who would buy this policy off me?

ACU : Yes loads - beacuse practically every rider has this problem - we think 99% would purchases a policy off you

Ins - We may be interested - but tell me - I am sure we arranged some cover for a " one off - one day cover" for riders for you - to solve this problem - at least in the short term - that must be an earner?

ACU - Well we appreciate it of course - but it is exopensive if you have to do it each time - and a bit of a drag - our members would prefer an annual.


Ins - Ok - lets just look at some figures - In the last National Trial held on road of say 100 riders - how many took out the One Day cover?


JC - Er - 4


Ins : **!!!!!!***** 4 - You told me road cover while in an event is virtually unavailable from their own Insurance companies - and now you are ****!!!!!***** telling me there were only 4 people in the event who actually needed it. What did the others do? Who did they use?

JC - hang about - I've just got to go and mend a puncture in my Bultaco - I'll get back to you as soon as I can

[John Collins]

The rider signs an Entry form which say's quite clearly that where RTA requirements need to be met - it is their responsibility to ensure they have all this in place - including Ins/Licence/MOT if applicable and of course legal machine.

Checking insurance cover notes / certificates etc is not something that I think should be forced on the already hard working Organiser - and in actual fact would be a quite difficult task

The onus needs to be clearly on the rider - and the Club have after all requested him to confirm by signature that all this is in place

[Baldilocks]

Just been talking about this tonight, I had a policy through the 90's from 91 to about 98 from Devitt DA which provided cover only when taking part in an ACU organised event and it was less than £50 a year. As I got a certificate I could tax the bike with it. Devitt then declined to renew one year and wouldnt give a reason.

I then managed to get a similar policy from Protectabike in 2003 for £80 and I kept that until they wrote in november and said they would decline to renew . I'm not aware of any large claims related to a trial, is anyone else ?

so now i need to take out a normal policy to tax the bike for £100 approx and then take out a daily policy for each trial for £8 or £9 . seems daft really but I sympathise with John.

[John Collins]

Yes Baldilock the Devitt scheme was an excellent one and a big loss. We have been back to them to try to get it re-instated but again unfortunately no luck.

It does seem to me that in nearly all cases it is not the claim history or past problems that seem to be influencing maters - but a fear of " potential" problems that may arise. Does not seem fair - but they seem to be trying to put everything neatly into the same box - and anything different - easier to just decline.

[Timp]

I would of thought a possible way round this problem would be to state on the regs that the road is not part of the event. Dont call it a road trial but a multi venue event. Stress that numbers must be covered whilst on the road as this is not part of the trial.

[chewy]

I have been trying to get information on this perhaps somebody can explain to me how one event insurance works and the problems with it:... .as surely there must be for there to be such a low uptake

[scorpa3]

Unless you do lots of road trials a year then the cost of the ACU's road insurance isn't exactly excessive at £9.50 per event.

Especially when you consider the cost of entering a road racing/MX/Enduro event, even if we included the insurance in the entry fee as standard (maybe with an opt out claus rather than an opt in claus) the cost of entering a trial isn't high at all.

It would be interesting to find out who is the rider who rides in the most road trials per season and how many they do.

[rabie]

you have a separate signing on form for the rider, so they sign the ACU one, then the RTA insurance form. they have to fill in their bike's registration (most of the time you might know this from the entry form so if you use a database you can just drop it in). riders have to tick to say they don't fall into the exemptions (stuff like under 21, points on licence, etc). now i'm of the opinion that you include the RTA cover in entry fee and make riders all sign it. you do though then have to get the riders to own up if they don't meet the 4 exemptions (easiest is under 21's) and get them to apply to the insurance co to ride (my sister and some friends both all had to do this), costs a little bit more.

it's not insurmountable but we're thus making the fundamental shift from the onus of road legality going from the rider to the club (in some ways) - i don't see this as a problem, but i recall that John Collins slightly disagrees

BTW I've CofC'ed two LDT's this year with around 70-80 riders and we've worked along these sort of lines (ie it works)