65 replies to this topic

[Neo]

I have just discovered a crack on my 06 Sherco 250 on the front cross brace. Right at the top of the radiator.

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It’s funny, but I’ve recently had my daughters GasGas 70 down the welders...3 times!!! And I’ve been running GasGas frames down as a result. But now my Sherco is giving me frame problems....but not too may, I hope.

I ride most days, with a minimal amount of abuse. So a few questions spring to mind:-

1. Am I the first to have a cracked late (06 to 08) Sherco frame?

2. Has any else had a crack in this same place on a black frame Sherco?

3. What do you think would have caused this to break like this?

4. Would it be best to remove the radiator for TIG welding.... I am not sure if it’s best to weld both sides? But there is enough space to pain behind the weld after it’s re-done.

5. Would it be best to clamp the outer frame sides (to close the gap) prior to welding..... Or it is best to weld across the gap?

6. Dose anyone know what would be the best color match paint to use?.... I previously read a thread on black paint, to use on a Sherco. But that paint manufacture is not available in Australia.


Any help with these questions would be appreciated


Best of balance.

Neo

[Baldilocks]

Neo, on Mar 23 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

I have just discovered a crack on my 06 Sherco 250 on the front cross brace. Right at the top of the radiator.

Visit the TA Website


It’s funny, but I’ve recently had my daughters GasGas 70 down the welders...3 times!!! And I’ve been running GasGas frames down as a result. But now my Sherco is giving me frame problems....but not too may, I hope.

I ride most days, with a minimal amount of abuse. So a few questions spring to mind:-

1. Am I the first to have a cracked late (06 to 08) Sherco frame?

2. Has any else had a crack in this same place on a black frame Sherco?

3. What do you think would have caused this to break like this?

4. Would it be best to remove the radiator for TIG welding.... I am not sure if it’s best to weld both sides? But there is enough space to pain behind the weld after it’s re-done.

5. Would it be best to clamp the outer frame sides (to close the gap) prior to welding..... Or it is best to weld across the gap?

6. Dose anyone know what would be the best color match paint to use?.... I previously read a thread on black paint, to use on a Sherco. But that paint manufacture is not available in Australia.


Any help with these questions would be appreciated


Best of balance.

Neo

Neo I was once told to take the ignition system off a bike before getting it welded as the current passing through the fram may damage the electrics ? I'm not sure if the person is correct but I did it anyway just in case. The radiator is probably best removed as well.

[hop blip and a jump]

Yeah, i was told the same thing!

[dabomb]

Hi Neo,i have an 04 sherco,i`ve had a similar problem with cracks,but mine has cracked where the sump guard attaches to the frame at the rear,in the footpeg area.There is a lug which is attatched to the frame,and there ia a bolt hole which fastens the sump gaurd.Mine has cracked hereand i know of at least one other case of this.Its probably caused by bashing the sump guard and it becoming bent.When i removed the sump guard,it was extemely dificult to get it back,because the holes dont line up due to the distortion.
Check your bike in this area.Obviously yours is a newer model,so it might not have happened,but its an area which needs to be kept an eye on.

Steve

[ZIPPY]

Quote

majestyman340 Posted Today, 11:50 AM
QUOTE (hop blip and a jump @ Mar 23 2008, 02:36 PM)
Yeah, i was told the same thing!



I think they mean removing the stator coils as well as the CDI................not sure on this, but better to be on the safe side I suppose.

what if someone just unhooked the ground wire. would this isolate the electics enough?

Just thinking quick easy and lazy

[johnkennedy]

not sure if this is true but a mate told e that if your frame snap you can get a new one on warranty, no matter how old it was. he got one fot his 07 sherco totaly free
If i was you I would check with you dealer, you might get a nice shiny new one for free

[copemech]

I have heard of this happening but never seen one.

Guaging with the fingers, the frame material seems fairly thick in that area.

I think if it were mine I would grind down the factory weld , place some insulating material behind to shield the radiator and burn in a nice wide bead over the crack and overlapping the factory weld using a good high output MIG unit.
Then run a smaller "T" bead out from the center about 20mm each way to disburse the stress point.

Krylon semi-flat black seems to work ok for touch up.

You did need to remove the clamps and re-pack those steering head bearings did'nt you?


Hope that helps,

[JSE]

copemech, on Mar 23 2008, 01:34 PM, said:

I have heard of this happening but never seen one.

Guaging with the fingers, the frame material seems fairly thick in that area.

I think if it were mine I would grind down the factory weld , place some insulating material behind to shield the radiator and burn in a nice wide bead over the crack and overlapping the factory weld using a good high output MIG unit.
Then run a smaller "T" bead out from the center about 20mm each way to disburse the stress point.

Krylon semi-flat black seems to work ok for touch up.
You did need to remove the clamps and re-pack those steering head bearings did'nt you?
Hope that helps,

I was always taught by my Engineer buddies to remove the modular components (CDI etc.) before welding and always ground the welder as close to the welding site as possible. They seem to think the welding vs. fried electricals experience came from a welder grounding far away from the weld site and the current flowing through the frame (and components also) but they take off the "expensive stuff" before welding.

I'd also check all engine mount fasteners (clean and re-torque) as the engine is an included part of the frame, which is usually a diamond shape with the engine in the center as a brace. Generally, even a slight amount of movement at the brace (engine) will flex, and therefore stress, the pointed ends of the diamond, i.e. the footpeg area and the headstock (steering stem) and cracks will form. You'll want to loosen all engine mounts, weld the frame and then tighten the engine mounts after cooling, which should relieve any stress areas.

Jon

Edited by JSE, 24 March 2008 - 08:46 PM.

[Alan Bechard]

ZIPPY, on Mar 23 2008, 05:46 PM, said:

what if someone just unhooked the ground wire. would this isolate the electics enough?

Just thinking quick easy and lazy

Hey Zip, if you can, when welding, you want to remove any sensitive electronics completely away. You are just minimizing risk by doing so. If it is sitting on the bench, and you are welding on the frame, it will not be effected.

Often you hear the folks say "disconnect the ground cable" that will "break the electrical circuit" when welding and protect the electronics.

For those folks, I use this example (Usually have this discussion when welding cars and tractors)

Ok, take your gee wiz computerized thingamajiggy, and bolt one end to a peice of steel, now bolt the other end to another peice of steel. Put ground on one side, and weld on the other, did the electric current pass through the part?

The problem with welding, and particularly zapping of electronics is NOT the electricity going where you think it will, it is finding out it was finding some other path of least resistance that you had no idea was there.

All that said, standard practice is to disconnect that cable (More for me to keep from juicing the battery) grind and clean my ground site, very near and with nothing but clean metal between it and my weld site, no bearing's no electronics no nuttin.

Be very carefull with High Freq (non scratch start tig) as HF can make electricity do and jump through some weird things that it normally would not do.

And I usually weigh out the hassle of removing stuff, vs, the availablity of replacements, vs the time crush I am in.

While I have watched Gazillion dollar race cars and bikes pulled into the welding area, beat into place, and welded while they were still running and not have a lick of problems, and head right back out onto the track. Sitting at home, in my shop I would pull the boxes off my Sherco to weld up the frame.

Hope that made some sense.

Crud, just read what John said, and yes, what he said

Edited by Alan Bechard, 24 March 2008 - 06:59 PM.

[ZIPPY]

I did weld some bracing on my skid plate mounts but at the time the entire frame was completely empty. During the winter with all the other stuff I did to it.

I am also guilty of clamping the ground of my wire feeder to the foot peg and then doing a quick weld of the crack on my foot peg mount.

so on one hand I am Mr. ultra careful but on the other hand I am a Doofus.
I got multiple personalities.

[Neo]

copemech, on Mar 24 2008, 05:34 AM, said:

Then run a smaller "T" bead out from the center about 20mm each way to disburse the stress point.

Hi copemech,

Can you explain this in a bit more detail??


Best of balance.

Neo

[copemech]

Neo, on Mar 25 2008, 06:27 PM, said:

Hi copemech,

Can you explain this in a bit more detail??


Best of balance.

Neo

I should have said you want the weld to look like a "+" to disburse the stress point where the sections join. If you are doing it on the one side, you need a good full penetration weld on the primary break, then the sides added in. This ties things together better

A good man with a Mig can do it easily I would think, more specilized Tig would be optional, possibly optimal, would be up to the operator i think.

[Neo]

copemech, on Mar 24 2008, 05:34 AM, said:

Krylon semi-flat black seems to work ok for touch up.

Hi Copemech,

Is that Krylon emi-flat black in the "RUST TOUGH" range or the "DECORATOR 5 BALL" range??

Best of balance.

Neo

[copemech]

It is the rust tough stuff

If you feather the edges a bit when you spray, let it dry, then rub it in a bit, you can hardly tell, if you know where it was?

Edited by copemech, 31 March 2008 - 03:25 AM.