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whackywoody

What Is The Future - 4 Stroke Or 2 Stroke?

2 Stroke or 4 Stroke   91 members have voted

  1. 1. What will trials bike manufacturers be producing in the future?

    • 4 strokes only
      14
    • 2 strokes only
      15
    • 4 strokes and 2 strokes
      62

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58 posts in this topic

You may find that electric trials bikes do not need to replicate gas engine characteristics in order to be successful. Once riders get use to the electric motor's characteristics they may find that the electric motor can do things the gas engine can't.

Depending on how well the throttle is programmed, there may not be a need for a clutch or "riding with a clutch" techniques.

We'll see and sooner that you think.

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there may not be a need for a clutch or "riding with a clutch" techniques.
Really. It is not like you are going to stall the motor!

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DGShannon Posted Today, 02:05 PM

QUOTE (swooshdave @ Jun 25 2008, 07:57 AM) *

there may not be a need for a clutch or "riding with a clutch" techniques.

Really. It is not like you are going to stall the motor!

But what will I do with my left hand?

My fingers will get lazy :)

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But what will I do with my left hand?

My fingers will get lazy :)

I recommend holding onto the handlebars.

I don't know if it's just me but when I turn to the right I have a harder time as I'm trying to push down and manage the throttle.

I have a much easier time going the other way as the side pushing down (left) doesn't have to do multiple things.

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Electric is certainly interesting but the physics shows the problem, a gallon of petrol has an energy equivalent of about 90 kWhrs, with an engine efficiency of typically 25% that gives about 22kWhrs of useful energy, with 0.746 kW = 1 hp that is roughly 30 bhp for 1 hour for 1 gallon which seems about right.

A current practical Lithium battery about the same volume as a gallon of petrol would typically be 24V at 100Ahr or 2.4 kWhrs, this is one tenth of the energy that an IC engine can produce from our 1 gallon of petrol! Also the battery will be much heavier than the gallon of petrol.

I was hoping to try the Quantya off roader but even by the manufacturers own endurance figures it has the equivalent range that 1 litre of fuel gives in my Alp

Edited by grindrod

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Hi All

My view is this....

If the manufactures could produce an engine that was better than the 4 stroke in the following ways...

1) A lighter engine

2) A cheaper engine to produce in volume

3) A cheaper engine for the owner to maintain with basic skill levels

4) An engine that produces the same or more bhp than a 4 stroke

5) An engine that is easier on the clutch and drive train

6) An engine that meets emissions with fuel injection

THATS A 2 STROKE THEN....... :agreed:

Im sure honda will eat there words in the near future and produce 2 strokes again.... :P

With all the electrics and fuel delivery systems we have today a 2 stroke will be going strong for years and years to come :thumbup:

Electric bikes in water......now thats something to see :icon_salut:

Edited by mobbster

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Of course given the choice i would like all trials bikes to be two strokes and to have all the electric and 4 stroke bikes ground up into small peices and turned into beer cans.

Good job i'm not in charge really isn't it.

Yes it is.

Can't fathom the mentality

love all motorbikes.

Edited by the observer

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I recommend holding onto the handlebars.

I don't know if it's just me but when I turn to the right I have a harder time as I'm trying to push down and manage the throttle.

I have a much easier time going the other way as the side pushing down (left) doesn't have to do multiple things.

After 18 months I would say you are doing this wrong.

For a left turn I would in loose terrain pull up with the left hand and push down with the right. Pushing down on the outside handle bar will decrease the tendency of the front wheel to plough on. When turning to the right pull up with the right hand and push down with the left.

As far as electric bikes go a possible option maybe to have two battery sets. A small cell that powers the bike in the section then lift back onto the bike the main pack to get you between the sections which you take off the bike at the next section. Light bike in the section and all the power you need to do the loop. Still want to ride my 2 stroke Beta!

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I Luv PA, but untill he stops all that pulling and starts pushing on the pegs, he will never get a bike to turn! :thumbup:

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I Luv PA, but untill he stops all that pulling and starts pushing on the pegs, he will never get a bike to turn! :thumbup:

I dont know what the future is off the 4t / 2t bikes but i have a simular problem.

I would like to buy a 4-storke because the enviroment, lower emission.

I would like to hold a 2-stoke because off the low budget maintenance.

This year i'm going to buy a new bike but dont know iff it will be a

4-stroke Beta EVO 300 are a 2-stroke Evo 290 / 2-stroke Sherco.

Nature rules but also price & low budget maintenance.

Luc the belgium rider.

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I dont know what the future is off the 4t / 2t bikes but i have a simular problem.

I would like to buy a 4-storke because the enviroment, lower emission.

I would like to hold a 2-stoke because off the low budget maintenance.

This year i'm going to buy a new bike but dont know iff it will be a

4-stroke Beta EVO 300 are a 2-stroke Evo 290 / 2-stroke Sherco.

Nature rules but also price & low budget maintenance.

Luc the belgium rider.

a 290 beta evo it is then :thumbup:

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I think once direct high pressure injection is widely used, and they produce a 2 stroke that requires no mix you will see the end of the 4 stroke.\

I believe it is right around the corner

Dustin

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The problem of the clutch could, no doubt, be solved with many different methods of clever electronic trickery.

Or they could just give it a clutch!

If electric bikes are going to be a hit with riders then they need to emulate the way that a conventional engine responds to the riders input.

There are lots of people and companies developing or researching the possibility of electric bikes, but surely they have to start by looking at what the customer wants and i would say that what we want (if we must) is an electric bike that feels the same to use as a petrol bike. Given the endless possibilities for "tuning" the power output and delivery of an electric motor surely this cant be too difficult.

Of course given the choice i would like all trials bikes to be two strokes and to have all the electric and 4 stroke bikes ground up into small peices and turned into beer cans.

Good job i'm not in charge really isn't it.

I would just like to chip in if i may.

It was 2 an a half years ago i posted that and since then i have since had my mind changed about electric bikes. There is a lot of potential there. I still prefer 2-strokes to 4 bangers but i think electric bikes have come a long way over the last couple of years. Oset in particular have impressed me massively.

The Oset bikes are really well designed, really well built, they have PLENTY of punch for the kids who learn on them but are clever with the parental restrictions. Its not just the electric powerplant but little design touches like the enclosed chain that impresses me.

I will be buying one for my daughter when she is 8 in May as i don't think there is any better way for her to learn. http://www.osetbikes.co.uk/

Their may be a long way to go for the full size bikes but yes i can definately see a future in them. I'm not so big that i cant admit when i was wrong.

I would still be grinding up all the diesel powered 4 strokes but thats just me.

Each to his own eh.

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I would just like to chip in if i may.

It was 2 an a half years ago i posted that and since then i have since had my mind changed about electric bikes. There is a lot of potential there. I still prefer 2-strokes to 4 bangers but i think electric bikes have come a long way over the last couple of years. Oset in particular have impressed me massively.

The Oset bikes are really well designed, really well built, they have PLENTY of punch for the kids who learn on them but are clever with the parental restrictions. Its not just the electric powerplant but little design touches like the enclosed chain that impresses me.

I will be buying one for my daughter when she is 8 in May as i don't think there is any better way for her to learn. http://www.osetbikes.co.uk/

Their may be a long way to go for the full size bikes but yes i can definately see a future in them. I'm not so big that i cant admit when i was wrong.

I would still be grinding up all the diesel powered 4 strokes but thats just me.

Each to his own eh.

Oset......They are for kids...yes my little boy has one BUT if you had a version for adults it would weigh more than a car :rolleyes:

Dont get me wrong they are a great item for kids to learn on but even the battery & motor is old technology.

As you stated above the oset is probably the best small bike on the market but dont confuse that with state of the art technology....(to be honest i think if you could have shown an oset bike to a NASA engineer in the late 1960 early 70s i still dont think he/she would be impressed- but its the best we have now which only goes to show how slow things progress in a limited market)

Cheers

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Battery tech is advancing rapidly. Much of what is in research today won't hit mainstream production for 5 years but there is plenty of money behind it and we will all benefit. As for the power characteristics of an electric just program a memory chip for anything you want. Want it to feel like a two stroke, four stroke, tubine? No problem.

You can still have a clutch lever. Pull it and it will just decrease the drive current to the motor. The advantage of the electric motor is the torque output is decoupled from the speed of the engine. Want full acceleration from zero RPM? No problem just use the clutch lever as an on/off switch. No gears to change. Traction control? Again easy to acheive.

Swapping out batteries every loop shouldn't be difficult when the price comes down from mass production. I'm looking forward to the electric bike. It will change everything and it will change nothing. The best riders will still be the best and us duffers will still have fun. And yes, the ECO nazis will still find a way to close down access. It's never been about the environment. It's about control.

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