56 replies to this topic

[PSchrauber]

Just to throw my 2 Pence or Cent opinion in here:

As an older rider I once thaught riding a trials 4 stroke is a nice idea, cool sound, no premix, smoother engine, .... in the mid 80's there was also a let's call it a small 4-stroke rush, so I've got an Italjet Scott plonker back then and was disappointed, because of the weight and the engine that was far behind the 2-stroke in torque, power output, ...

I went back to a 2-stroke after some months, getting a Montesa Cota 304 and where pleased again.

As all know a couple of years ago nearly all manufactors have developed 4-stroke bikes, (intresting point is that gasgas has aborted their 4-stroke project, if they will do a restart ...?), but as also mentioned already the development of the 2-stroke engine went on too.

After the new OSSA now has developed a working fuel injection system for a 2-stroke trials I think there is no substancial benefit anymore using a 4-stroke engine.

The electric driven bikes do have some issues with the batteries now. Maybe in the future we will see cheaper, better and lighter units that don't cost as much as now. As long as these rechargeable batteries make up between 60 - 40% of the complete bike and only have a limited duration I will not hop up this train.

Best thing for a consumer like me is to wait if there will be another break throw in technical development, I once took part in the development by buying a nice looking and cool sounding piece where the development wasn't finished I will not do that again. It is just too expensive.

I will follow any further invention that will be made in the engine comparement and if it will turn out it is a benefit I will opt for it.

Meanwhile:

I'am pleased with the 2-stroke, again!
I will not go for a 4 - stroke because there is no benefit.
There is no serial electric trialsbike for adults, so this is not an option for me yet.

[the observer]

The ItalJet Scot 4T is not the correct bike to judge a modern 4T. When the ItalJet came out 25 years ago (!!!) it was a poor trials bike. I think that it was intended as a Trail bike not for competition.

[PSchrauber]

PSchrauber, on 23 January 2011 - 02:51 PM, said:

Just to throw my 2 Pence or Cent opinion in here:

As an older rider I once thaught riding a trials 4 stroke is a nice idea, cool sound, no premix, smoother engine, .... in the mid 80's there was also a let's call it a small 4-stroke rush, so I've got an Italjet Scott plonker back then and was disappointed, because of the weight and the engine that was far behind the 2-stroke in torque, power output, ...

I went back to a 2-stroke after some months, getting a Montesa Cota 304 and where pleased again.
As all know a couple of years ago nearly all manufactors have developed 4-stroke bikes, (intresting point is that gasgas has aborted their 4-stroke project, if they will do a restart ...?), but as also mentioned already the development of the 2-stroke engine went on too.

After the new OSSA now has developed a working fuel injection system for a 2-stroke trials I think there is no substancial benefit anymore using a 4-stroke engine.

The electric driven bikes do have some issues with the batteries now. Maybe in the future we will see cheaper, better and lighter units that don't cost as much as now. As long as these rechargeable batteries make up between 60 - 40% of the complete bike and only have a limited duration I will not hop up this train.

Best thing for a consumer like me is to wait if there will be another break throw in technical development, I once took part in the development by buying a nice looking and cool sounding piece where the development wasn't finished I will not do that again. It is just too expensive.

I will follow any further invention that will be made in the engine comparement and if it will turn out it is a benefit I will opt for it.

Meanwhile:

I'am pleased with the 2-stroke, again!
I will not go for a 4 - stroke because there is no benefit.
There is no serial electric trialsbike for adults, so this is not an option for me yet.

the observer, on 23 January 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

The ItalJet Scot 4T is not the correct bike to judge a modern 4T. When the ItalJet came out 25 years ago (!!!) it was a poor trials bike. I think that it was intended as a Trail bike not for competition.

I haven't judged a modern 4t, please look up my posting and read it again and you will see that I only compared it to bikes of the same area. I haven't mentioned any comparison between the old to the modern one.

The modern 4-stroke is cool and works great. No dubts! But it is still al ittle bit heavier, it does cost sill a little bit more and an engine repair compaired between a 4T and 2T will be a little bit more expensive on the 4T side.

I did post this old story because I have learned my lesson:

Do not always switch to the newst technology if the development is not completed.

IMHO the question between 2T and 4T is a question between beer and wine or choclat and wine gum, now.
Both engine system work, the real advantage you might have between these both systems belongs to the world championship rider, I'am so far away of their skills so I will not post any statement which of the engine systems is better. It's a task of personal taste and riding style I would say.

In technology there is a close up race between the 2T and 4T. Only a couple of years ago the 4T was in front, now the 2T has catched up. It will certainly be very intresting to see what the futur will show us.

[madcr500]

Dan Williams, on 23 January 2011 - 01:26 AM, said:

Battery tech is advancing rapidly. Much of what is in research today won't hit mainstream production for 5 years but there is plenty of money behind it and we will all benefit. As for the power characteristics of an electric just program a memory chip for anything you want. Want it to feel like a two stroke, four stroke, tubine? No problem.

You can still have a clutch lever. Pull it and it will just decrease the drive current to the motor. The advantage of the electric motor is the torque output is decoupled from the speed of the engine. Want full acceleration from zero RPM? No problem just use the clutch lever as an on/off switch. No gears to change. Traction control? Again easy to acheive.

Swapping out batteries every loop shouldn't be difficult when the price comes down from mass production. I'm looking forward to the electric bike. It will change everything and it will change nothing. The best riders will still be the best and us duffers will still have fun. And yes, the ECO nazis will still find a way to close down access. It's never been about the environment. It's about control.

Here Here.

Edited by madcr500, 24 January 2011 - 09:33 PM.

[cota4rt]

LOL..........It's only a matter time!

[legionnair]

How about a wet sump no mixed direct injection 2stroke. Best of both worlds?

[TooFastTim]

legionnair, on 09 April 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

How about a wet sump no mixed direct injection 2stroke. Best of both worlds?

Need a blower.

[ZIPPY]

TooFastTim, on 11 April 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

Need a blower.

Don't we all?

[legionnair]

Haha so stupid of course. Ok just for kick say we add a small screw compressor driven off the crank. I bet it would still be alot lighter than a 4 stroke and have the rev to boot

[TooFastTim]

ZIPPY, on 11 April 2011 - 07:00 PM, said:

Don't we all?

Ha de effing ha....

[JoeNinety]

Personally I think 2T's will be around for a few years yet.... but on the electric front as a lot of folks have said battery life, power and weight is getting better all the time but I don't think its just the case of replacing a internal combustion engine with a electric motor. I believe the whole bike will need a redesign.

The batteries on the bike can be placed anywhere, maybe in two or more positions which could help weight distribution and balance. Why not put the motor in the hub of the wheel, no chain or sprockets and maybe no brake as the motor could be used for braking... how about putting another motor in the front wheel and having both wheels driven! With digital modelling maybe you're favorite engine can just be programmed whether its 2T , 4T etc. There's other benefits like no kick start, exhaust, air box etc.

I'm not saying this is going to happen tomorrow but with the electric trials bike I believe a clean sheet of paper is required and no preconceptions of what's already out there with regards to petrol machines!

Cheers,

Gary.

[bashplate]

please NO......a motorbike with zero noise......AAAAAAAaaaaaggggg!!!!! while an electric bike might do the job, i can't help thinking it just wouldn't feel right. the engine noise/tone kinda tells you whats happening with regards to grip and how much power you have or havent as the case may be. you ain't gonna get that with a silent battery motor.

[DGShannon]

bashplate, on 05 August 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

please NO......a motorbike with zero noise......AAAAAAAaaaaaggggg!!!!! while an electric bike might do the job, i can't help thinking it just wouldn't feel right. the engine noise/tone kinda tells you whats happening with regards to grip and how much power you have or havent as the case may be. you ain't gonna get that with a silent battery motor.

Electric motors still make noise, and you will get used to the whine. If not, then we will soon wonder how we ever rode without being able to hear the tires gripping the dirt, versus slipping.

[americanbeta]

I suggest everyone take a test ride on a new Beta Evo 250 or 300 4 stroke. Beta continues to develop the bike. It is light as can be, is as quiet as a lizard and is super easy to ride. You can also purchase the optional long range seat/tank combo that will get you a minimum 50 mile range (almost 2 gallons)

Even if you are not in the market for a new bike, please ride your buddies Evo 4 stroke, I think you will be surprised.

Enjoy your Beta!

[Steve Fracy]

I have just picked up a 300 4T to ride and think its amazing! It has the factory rear pipe on it so it does go like stink! It certainly has lots of power... just trying to adapt back to the 4T power is taking a bit. The motor is so versatile so sorting out what gears to use in sections. Lovely bike, and very well made.