[GrahamJayzee]

Hi All,

I've just returned to trials after 12 years away and brought a couple of shiney newbies with me. I think we need to look at the steps newbies have to go through and ask if there's a better way.

The three of us have recently acquired bikes around November time. 2 of us are Cambs area, one is Gosport on the south coast. I had ridden many trials in the early-mid 90s and so had a fair clue as to what to do. My newbies were relying on me. In particular, Nicks_TR34 not only had no real clue what to do, but had no 'feel' for what was going on in his area.

What we decided to do is to join Cambridge Matchless for 2009 and also Thames MCC. The cambs duo will do most of the Cambs MCC trials and a handful of Thames ones and vica versa for Nick.

The problem is, it has taken a huge amount of time to arrive at this information and even now we are still jumping through hoops to get to ride. As I see it, the ACU needs to consider the needs of newbies a little more.

You see, there is a chicken and egg situation here whereby you need to have an ACU registration before riding a trial, but cannot get one until you have joined a club. We don't have a lot of time to visit the areas to get a feel for the clubs and couldn't find a central point of information on future events so we could find if nearby clubs ran Closed to Club trials. As a result, we can't easily join the ACU for the remainder of 2008 because we don't have a club card (I do, but me mates don't) and realistically don't have time to get the form to the club secretary to sign AND get back to the ACU! Now, Thames will allow us to ride if we pay the ACU membership on the day (£10) and we can ride on the 28th December.

Ask yourself, is this welcoming newbies? We have topay a full year's membership for 3 days use, and it's concentrated all these expenses into one hit, which has now ceased to be entirely trivial.

ACU, PLEASE can you make this easier?
One thing that would really help is a list of ALL ACU events on the website. Had we had that we could have targetted a suitable Southern club a month ago and got the registration off in more time.
Secondly, why not have a 'from' and 'to' on the card? If the default is Jan-jan, if a newbie joins in november, take a pro-rata amount for the additional 2 months and put nov-08 in the 'from' box. How hard is that?
Thirdly, can't it be possible to be a member of the ACU without club attachment? I don't see why the 2 have to be linked! You need club membership to ride a trial anyway but to be able to join the ACU independantly would make getting started SO much easier.

There is a lot of information for a newbie to take in and surely the ACU is prefectly placed to centralise this?

Any thoughts anyone?

Graham

[Fivemeister]

Quote

The problem is, it has taken a huge amount of time to arrive at this information and even now we are still jumping through hoops to get to ride. As I see it, the ACU needs to consider the needs of newbies a little more.

Graham
I can't help but think that you are being a bit drippy here. There is more than enough trials information on the internet given just a few moments searching, and that's not including where we are at the moment or the TMX weekly paper.

Take our local ACU site - http://www.motorcycl...g.uk/trials.htm - all the years events listed for the centre, and anything you need after that check the individual clubs website or speak to the club contacts.

First port of call for most newbies is a local club - join for a small fee get your ACU application form signed and pay your tenner - sorted.

Can't see it could be any easier - Am I missing something?

[scorpa3]

The ACU also now have a simplified form to use for rifers only wishing to get the trials affiliation rather than a full licence.
As the club membership sec, the new form certainly saves me a lot of unnecessary printing too!

Anyone reading this who competes inthe Midlands Centre, all club trials are 'open to centre' which means that you only need to join one club to ride in any event in the centre.

[GrahamJayzee]

Fivemeister, on Dec 9 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

Graham
I can't help but think that you are being a bit drippy here. There is more than enough trials information on the internet given just a few moments searching, and that's not including where we are at the moment or the TMX weekly paper.

Take our local ACU site - http://www.motorcycl...g.uk/trials.htm - all the years events listed for the centre, and anything you need after that check the individual clubs website or speak to the club contacts.

First port of call for most newbies is a local club - join for a small fee get your ACU application form signed and pay your tenner - sorted.

Can't see it could be any easier - Am I missing something?

Thanks Fivemeister!

I think you might have missed my point here, or maybe I am being a bit drippy!

I probably have just enough knowlwedge to make things hard for myself, but I still think that for my two friends this was harder than it needed to be. You see, back in the day I formed a bond with my club for various reasons, one of which was that the venues suited the level of challenge I was comfortable with and the particular group of regulars and I fitted together well. In addition, there was a series of closed to club trials that ideally suited me. Now, I put a post on here asking for a list of dates in the southern centre and didn't get far. There may be now, but 3 weeks ago there wasn't a lot on TMX or the ACU website. Without a list showing who is running what, you simply have to take a plunge and join a club. That's OK, it doesn't really matter which club you join, does it? However, if, like my friends you have broached the sport in late november, it all gets rather complicated due to the requirement for an ACU licence and the need for club membership before you get one.

It's easy to see this from a point of view where we know the clubs and are comfortable just wading in, but my friends were not.

Incidentally, I have indeed noticed that many clubs now have 2009 dates published, but you've still got to dig hard to find them, particularly as we cross 4 regions in our geographical niche!

I still think that the ACU website could better offer up a platter of this information, and it certainly doesn't at the moment.


Scorpa3, you are of course correct...

...apart from Cambridge Matchless' excellent closed to club summer series!

Graham

[totalshell]

your not wrong or alone. starting outin trials if you dont know someone who rides or shares the interest isn't easy. licences permits arn't simple enough. it should be we welcome everyone .. ride what you brung.. glad to have you along ( aka AMCA classic trials). instead its well join a club ( some still ask for proposers and seconders..) get a licence ride your bike.
we dont make it simple..

[bilc0]

GrahamJayzee, on Dec 9 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

We have topay a full year's membership for 3 days use,

Yes that does taste abit sour,why can't the licence run for a year of date issued,so get it in november runs out next nov?

[bikespace]

bilc0, on Dec 10 2008, 01:13 AM, said:

Yes that does taste abit sour,why can't the licence run for a year of date issued,so get it in november runs out next nov?

I'd imagine it's complicated to manage that. I believe the ACU licences are dealt with by an external company. At the moment they'll have a once a year batch to run off and send out a few thousand renewal forms, then obviously deal with the applications as they trickle in.
I would think that to pick out individual expiry dates and send out renewals would be much more expensive, which would no doubt be passed on to us.

My suggestion would be - go along to a trial, get your form signed for 2009 membership, blag it on the 28th with your 2009 card

[GrahamJayzee]

totalshell, on Dec 9 2008, 11:21 PM, said:

your not wrong or alone. starting outin trials if you dont know someone who rides or shares the interest isn't easy. licences permits arn't simple enough. it should be we welcome everyone .. ride what you brung.. glad to have you along ( aka AMCA classic trials). instead its well join a club ( some still ask for proposers and seconders..) get a licence ride your bike.
we dont make it simple..

Thanks Totalshell, I thought I had indeed gone a bit soft!

I have nothing against club membership (or indeed ACU membership), but the chicken and eggness of the joinging process if you are near the end of the year and trying to get sorted for a trial 3 weeks away is a bit of a put-off.

Incidentally, I have finally managed to collate a list of trials for East Midlands, South Midlands and Thames MCC (This is the are we are choosing from; we're not doing all 200-odd!). If anyone wants it, PM me.

Graham

[GrahamJayzee]

bikespace, on Dec 10 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

My suggestion would be - go along to a trial, get your form signed for 2009 membership, blag it on the 28th with your 2009 card

Shame we have to blag it, isn't it? We have taken this stance for one of our party because with various other commitments he won't be able to get his ACU application off in time. I have a long way to travel (and fortunately already had a club card) and didn't want to risk 'blag failure', so I got me 3 days ACU membership!

I understand what you're saying, but the problem is getting newbies in, not those that already have a licence. After all, it's down to each of us to ensure we renew where necessary. However, an easier way is simply a 'valid from' date on the card and then allow it to fall for renewal at the end of the year, the same as everyone else. That way if you join in, say, november you pay £12 for your 2009 entry and the card states it runs from Nov2008-end of December 2009. If you join ahead of August, buy a full year. That would be so much easier because in most regions the calendars are less congested and we all have other stuff to do as well so have a bit more time.

[bilc0]

bikespace, on Dec 10 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

I'd imagine it's complicated to manage that. I believe the ACU licences are dealt with by an external company. At the moment they'll have a once a year batch to run off and send out a few thousand renewal forms, then obviously deal with the applications as they trickle in.
I would think that to pick out individual expiry dates and send out renewals would be much more expensive, which would no doubt be passed on to us.

Thats rubbish man and you know it...It makes good business sense for the ACU to have all those tenner's rolling in at the end of the year in one go,so they can stick it into there bank account,what interest would they get on that lot in one month two, three months??
Problem is it dont make good business sense for the guy that needs a licence in novenmber,i can see why newcomers would see that as a bit of a con,i fell into the same problem when i arrived back to trials coming up to the end of the year,i thought it was a bit off too,but i kind of knew what to expect.

This post has been edited by bilc0: 10 December 2008 - 09:18 AM

[GrahamJayzee]

bilc0, on Dec 10 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

Problem is it dont make good business sense for the guy that needs a licence in novenmber,i can see why newcomers would see that as a bit of a con,i fell into the same problem when i arrived back to trials coming up to the end of the year,i thought it was a bit off too,but i kind of knew what to expect.

It does a bit, but it's not really the money, it's the hassle that's prompted this post! A tenner in the grand scheme of getting a bike and all the kit isn't really here nor there. It's the fact that I have to do this for one trial! The ACU should be able to short-track newcomers onto the sections and the whole process of joining clubs, getting licences, collecting signatures and so forth is a hurdle we could live without!

Maybe some form of day mebership. Or, wait, a levy? No, it will never work...

[bikespace]

bilc0, on Dec 10 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

Thats rubbish man and you know it...It makes good business sense for the ACU to have all those tenner's rolling in at the end of the year in one go,so they can stick it into there bank account,what interest would they get on that lot in one month two, three months??
Problem is it dont make good business sense for the guy that needs a licence in novenmber,i can see why newcomers would see that as a bit of a con,i fell into the same problem when i arrived back to trials coming up to the end of the year,i thought it was a bit off too,but i kind of knew what to expect.

That's also rubbish man

Have you seen the interest rates at the moment? If the ACU kept all of your vast amounts of cash in the bank for the full year, they're not likely to get as much as 5% interest. They could achieve this massive profit by charging £10.50 for the licence .
The fact that they won't be keeping most of that cash in the bank for any great length of time means that they won't even be making that kind of cash. I'd imagine that this method of doing things is one thing that allows them to keep the fee down to a tenner.

Having said that I do sympathise a little with the tenner in December thing, but thinking it through I don't see a simple answer. It's only once you're ever going to be hit by an extra tenner - go to your local quad treking centre and you'll get 15 minutes on a quad for that.
Doesn't seem like a problem I'd be putting too much spare time in to fixing.

[scorpa3]

Plus it isn't all take.
Every affiliated ('licenced') rider needs to be sent the current ACU hand book (or the CD version) which includes the National Sporting Code. This book is amended each year, so even if you only ride in one event, the ACU still has the expense of sending us the book.

As for club membership, our club membership is £5 for 2009, (up from £3 this year) if anyone joins the club after the 1st November I automatically give them next years membership card with a free one for the remainder of this year. I also tell new riders to send me a completed affiliation application form (including a photo and a cheque made out to the ACU), and to save time I stamp it and send it straight to the ACU. I'd bet that the rider would have their licence back within a week of downloading the form.

This post has been edited by scorpa3: 10 December 2008 - 12:44 PM

[bilc0]

bikespace, on Dec 10 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

The fact that they won't be keeping most of that cash in the bank for any great length of time means that they won't even be making that kind of cash.

You seem to forget that there are other motorsports running under the ACU who pay abit more than we do for licence,surley there money goes into all the same pot to gather interest.

If the ACU accounts dept is doing there job properly they would'nt need to dive into next years licence fees,How long has the ACU been running for.

[bikespace]

bilc0, on Dec 10 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

If the ACU accounts dept is doing there job properly they would'nt need to dive into next years licence fees,How long has the ACU been running for.

ACU accounts department? You another one of those that thinks that ACU House is a 5 million pound mansion house within a country estate with dirty old men chasing scantily clad women round the grounds.
While it's a nice thought, it doesn't quite resemble the truth. I'd imagine the accounts department might fit in a robin reliant when they go out for their xmas dinner.

If you really think that trials is such a money spinner I think you're sadly deluded

Cheer up chap! Nobody's trying to rob you in my view.

1. You can go AMCA if you don't like the way the ACU do it
2. You could get involved with the ACU and bring some of your ideas to fruition.
3. Keep whinging and giving me something to smile about on an evening