[Pete_Scorpa3]

Mid way through last year, the ACU invited all clubs to send their representatives to a trials forum at Rugby. Sadly the event was cancelled due to lack of interest.
I had my name down to go and amongst the items that the Stratford-Upon-Avon club wished to raise was the idea of a common set of colours for all trials. Our proposal was put forward in writing anyway.

As we know, most events have two routes, many have three and some have more. Confusing and less than ideal I agree, but this is how it is. So why not have a common laid down set of rules so that we all know which colour to set out our trials.
You don't need to be a genius to think up a common system. Red arrows, yellow squares or what ever. If the ACU would just put it in the hand book we could all go from there.

I know that Wrighty has bored (Sorry- thoroughly covered) the matter with the powers that be and it was decided to stipulate red-blue for the main route but this really doesn't help us set out multi route trials.

So now I read with interest the SACU's decision to introduce such a system. See the PAGE article.

Come on ACU, why not introduce a generic marking system? Too late for this year I know, but why not make it for 2010? This would at least give clubs chance to use up their existing stocks of markers.

Pete

[Big John]

Hi Pete Scorpa,

The posting about the SACU colour coded marking system wasn't intended to stir anything up, we were just responding to many requests from riders and officials to have a standard section marking system up here. The hope is that once it gets underway, people will get used to it and it will ease the current confusion. We found in Scotland that clubs had already set up a system of their own for club trials with multi routes but we really needed to make a decision about a standard system so that you can go to any trial in Scotland and be met with the same coloured set up. The easy yellow route we hope will not only be used for Youth C but also rookies, to encourage riders to take up trials and ease them into riding easy sections. They can progress up to the Green route when they have ridden say a couple of trials. Nothing wrong with that?

For sure it will take a while to bed in, but it was felt that we do this right away and get the wrinkles ironed out early on, so that it is established for future seasons.

I did send a copy of my briefing note to my friend John Collins of the ACU who will be also aware of the SACU system (when he opens his e-mail!)

Big John

This post has been edited by Big John: 07 February 2009 - 11:09 PM

[Slapshot 3]

Big John, on Feb 7 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

Hi Pete Scorpa,

The posting about the SACU colour coded marking system wasn't intended to stir anything up, we were just responding to many requests from riders and officials to have a standard section marking system up here. The hope is that once it gets underway, people will get used to it and it will ease the current confusion. We found in Scotland that clubs had already set up a system of their own for club trials with multi routes but we really needed to make a decision about a standard system so that you can go to any trial in Scotland and be met with the same coloured set up. The easy yellow route we hope will not only be used for Youth C but also rookies, to encourage riders to take up trials and ease them into riding easy sections. They can progress up to the Green route when they have ridden say a couple of trials. Nothing wrong with that?

For sure it will take a while to bed in, but it was felt that we do this right away and get the wrinkles ironed out early on, so that it is established for future seasons.

I did send a copy of my briefing note to my friend John Collins of the ACU who will be also aware of the SACU system (when he opens his e-mail!)

Big John

We were trying to come up with the right way to do it at a BAMCC meeting on Wednesday night and it seemed obvious that we try to do something that might become a "rule" in the near future. We can't carry on confusing riders forever.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

We did try a four route system (a sample fo which I did pass onto the ACU) which was met with approval by our riders.
We had some small coloured arrows (triangles) made in four differnet colours and the riders were told to ignore all the other colours completely.

Red Arrows for Hard A
Blue Arrows for Clubmen B
Yellow Arrows for Easy C
White Arrows for Beginers D

No one went the wrong way! It's obvious which side of an arrow you have to pass.

By no means am I suggesting that this is the best method, it was just what we tried... and it worked.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

Big John, on Feb 7 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

Hi Pete Scorpa,

The posting about the SACU colour coded marking system wasn't intended to stir anything up, we were just responding to many requests from riders and officials to have a standard section marking system up here. The hope is that once it gets underway, people will get used to it and it will ease the current confusion. We found in Scotland that clubs had already set up a system of their own for club trials with multi routes but we really needed to make a decision about a standard system so that you can go to any trial in Scotland and be met with the same coloured set up. The easy yellow route we hope will not only be used for Youth C but also rookies, to encourage riders to take up trials and ease them into riding easy sections. They can progress up to the Green route when they have ridden say a couple of trials. Nothing wrong with that?

For sure it will take a while to bed in, but it was felt that we do this right away and get the wrinkles ironed out early on, so that it is established for future seasons.

I did send a copy of my briefing note to my friend John Collins of the ACU who will be also aware of the SACU system (when he opens his e-mail!)

Big John

It hadn't occured to me that there was any stiring at all. I think it's an excellent idea.

I've ridden under every version you can imagine and it just seems suprising that such a simple thing isn't stipulated by our governing body.

[John Collins]

Sound easy does it not? But the truth of matter is that everyone wishes to adopt a common system - as long as it is theirs.

To illustrate the point I put out a challenge - which could be quite interesting (if not entertaining) through TC all put forward your proposals - and if at end of posts you all come to a consensus of opinion - we will see what can be achieved - but please be aware that this means more than just one or two - it means quite a few of the regulars who post being in agreement – to be effective you will need about 20 of you to agree ( there are 21 Centres)

AND - It is sheer folly to ignore the fact that while those who propose a common system - conveniently forget that there is a huge difference of actual routes. Arriving at colour schemes is not too difficult - when you have a common version of routes - but already I have seen route A, B, C, D - others have hard, easy, masters. Beginners, novice, twin shock and so on. Some call route A - hard, B- Easy, C, Novice - and so it goes on - all those advocating the idea always start with the assumption that everyone runs exactly the same classes as they do - and the fact is that within 21 Centres there are variations - and this may be the place to start i.e. assess which classes we are talking about before you even start trying to place a colour code on them - but also beware if we - in my club and my centre have bought and painted a few hundred markers yellow - and you think - while we have absolutely no problem with those on the easy route distinguishing between red and blue ( hard route) and yellow - easy route - that we are going to throw them away or repaint them - because others are not able to make this distinction - I am more than a little sceptical

But as I started - prove me wrong. Through TC and TC only - come up with a universal colour system that will work for all classes in all the Centres - and agree - and I make a solemn promise I will try to get it adopted. I will not interfere or influence – other than just to summerise what you wish to suggest ( for all past suggestion have been seriously flawed) Let us over say a week - starting from now - see what conclusion and final scheme is the result ?

[SDC]

Common route colours and names are totally unnecessary, don’t you riders read “Supplementary Regulations” or pay attention to “Final Instructions”.

[2/4]

I have absolutely no quarrel with the proposed SACU measures but will have an old man's ramble.

Back in the mists of time when section cards in Scotland were all the same colour we followed route markers on the road - if you saw a red marker you turned right and if a blue marker you turned left.

Now, as I recall, the idea behind introducing different colours either side of the section was so that you would know which way to go when faced with a card "in the heat of battle" (in those days pairs of markers could be quite widely spaced and not necessarily both visible when bearing down on one having forgotten where you were in a longer section than now usual) . For some unfathomable reason convention was reversed such that when you saw a blue marker in a section you went right and a red marker you went left. Needless to say the opposite remained true on the route outside of sections. At least that anomaly will go.

I always thought the then North East centre idea of only having one marker where the terrain prevented you passing any way other than the intended (ie no need to put markers all the way along at the foot of a six foot vertical wall alongside a stream, was quite sensible and used it when laying out sections with the "new" colours) but I suppose with the capabilities of modern bikes this would be subject to abuse nowadays.

Now I'll just have to get my old two stroke fume addled brain to remember to look for and pass through pairs of the same coloured markers.

[bikespace]

SDC, on Feb 8 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

Common route colours and names are totally unnecessary, don’t you riders read “Supplementary Regulations” or pay attention to “Final Instructions”.

I have no big opinion on it, but I tend to agree.
Locally we're on the boundary of three centres. The marking systems tend to be different from one week to the next. You've only got to follow one route. If you can't find out what your route is before the trial and stick to it, then you've probably got bigger problems in life - like how to open a can of beans, how to start your car, how do up your velcro shoes (shoe laces are right out) :-)
We've got literally thousands of flags. We have our 40 section - 4 route trial marked out at the same time as another 10 section - 4 route trial.
We have our expert route with blue on the left, red on the right - this tends to give a general idea of section direction if things are a bit complicated.
We then have green deviations from that for inters.
We have a separate route for novice/over 40/etc with yellow on BOTH sides (maybe sometimes would be nice to have different colour on each side but we manage, and we try to make things obvious the way we mark it out)
We have a simpler Sportsman (Beginner/over50/pre65) route with white on both sides.

Would take a lot to persuade us to replace these flags without a damned good reason. Don't really have any problems now.

[davieboy]

I help Graham Miller mark out trials for the SCRMC,a few of you an here probably know who I am.
We only run one trial where this would affect us ,Balfron,a round of the support championship.
We set out as follows,the basic route is red on the right,blue on the left.Any A route deviations are clearly marked double yellow cards
and any C route are marked in double white markers.Only 3 routes A,B and C.
Some of the sections have no deviations,just one route suitable for all.With this new system any section like this would have to have 4 coloured markers
either side to let everyone know this route is suitable for all.
To set out a trial with 4 separate routes would take a long time.
All the club trials we set out are marked the same as this with a main route, with deviations for A and C classes.The A class may be only a large boulder etc.
to go over where it would be too difficult fot everyone else.Same with the C route,it may take an easier route than everyone else.

Also Graham has told me he has tried green markers in the past but riders found them hard to see if there was grass around them.We at present do not have any green markers,we have all the other colours so would have to purchase green ones for use at one trial a season.

[Lowbrow]

I'm with Bikespace on this one; clearly a problem that is perceived, but not actual. As long as the section marking is consistent throughout the trial and advertised in the reg's or when signing on I don't believe there's a problem.

[B40RT]

Could whatever is agreed not be effective from say 2011, all new flags / markers bought / made to comply. Existing flags usable until then.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

1. If it's just a simple case of reading the supplementary regs. then why has the sacu decided to have a common system?

2. If the ACU centres can't agree on what system to use, how did the SACU come by their decision?

[crasher]

hi all, i have no particular opinions as to which is the right or wrong way to mark sections out, but we tend to do 95% of our riding at the same 4 clubs throughout the year (estc,p'boro,loughboro & pegasus) all of whom use the same flag system,red on the right, blue on the left and yellow and white markers in pairs for the easier route deviations, so we don't really have any confusion, but if we were to venture further afield then it would be up to us to make sure we were following the correct route, which i wouldn't have thought to be honest would cause that much of a pro blem, just have to keep the brain engaged all the time (mind you that does seem to get more difficult as you get older!)

[Lowbrow]

Quote

If the ACU centres can't agree on what system to use, how did the SACU come by their decision?

In exactly the same way they decided to still give a 5 mark penalty for stopping. Its okay to be different!