24 replies to this topic

[Woody]

I've recently heard, from two seperate sources, that the definition of a section boundary is no longer what it was.

For ease of example I'll take a single route section, marked with blue on the left, red on the right markers. In the good old days, the blue designated the left hand boundary of the section and the red the right hand boundary. By definition, this meant that the boundary was the invisible straight line between each blue marker on the left, and each red marker on the right. Or in other words, they were the pavement on either side of the road, you ride up the road, you don't go on the pavement. If you went out of the section on the left between two blue markers it was a 5. If you went out between two red markers on the right it was a 5. Aceppted, riders have always pinched an inch or two but blantanly going outside for say a foot or more was a failure to stay within the section - a 5

It seems this is no longer the case. I don't know whether this is an ACU directive or not, JC may know, but we have now been told that a rider can go out of the section between 2 markers, as far as they like and then come back in again. It's even been suggested that this is how it has always been. We're told that if you want to keep a rider within the markers they must be taped. Like that can happen when you run 3 routes - it would be like a bloody spider's web with tape criss-crossing all over the place. And how much tape would be used marking out a single event... I like using tape on parts of some sections as they look more 'professional' but there are limits...

This is ridiculous if it's correct.

Example. You have a nice rocky stream that will present quite a challenge to ride feet up. Blue markers are up the left hand bank, red up the right. A rider enters the stream and turns left out between two blues and onto the bank. Turns a big circle back towards the stream, crosses the stream without touching a rock and goes out of the red markers on the opposite bank and performs the same maneouvre. Repeat this crossing of the stream all the way up and a clean is achieved without touching a single rock. Joke. But by the above definition it's acceptable.

Another example. Section starts and goes up a bank turning right on a camber and further up the bank. The objective is have riders turn right up a slippery muddy camber. Rider enters section and just before the turning, turns left out of a blue marker and rides down onto the flat field, turns around and has a 50 feet run up back into the section and straight up the bank, completely cutting out the corner. Again, this is acceptable by the above definition.

So has anyone else come across this 'new ruling'?

If this is the case, then for our next club trial I'm going to put a start gate at one end of the ground, an ends gate at the other and say to riders -go through the start gate, ride where you like then come out of the ends gate, come back and tell me your scores. No need to bother with section marker flags inbetween, you can all have cleans and be joint winners.

I always thought the enjoyment of trials riding was to ride the sections that had been laid out, as the plotters intended, not to ride all around them!!!

Then again, the 'new way' makes section marking easier I guess... And no need for standardisation of coloured markers as none will be needed.

OK, rant over, but riding out and back into sections like this is just another form of cheating that really winds me up.

[weeble]

Not heard that one before but if its right its stupid. Totally agree with you,it makes a mockery of the sport and we all might as well just go practicing and ride where we like.

[tilertrialler]

this really winds me up as well I am with you on this , the section is between the gates what ever colours they are , its obvious ,but on our club trials people will go between two markers loop and come back in , its riduclous, and once one does it they all follow. as a section plotter it spoils good sections.
even on the recent phil king trial , there was a section where you ended by going over 2 logs on an angle to get out of the ends gate, carefully positioned so you had to approachat an angle, all the pre 65 boys did it correctly and took marks off some , later i found out riders were going over the log lower weaving in a big loop and coming back into the ends, spoilt a good section.I do try and use tape,but as you say with 4 routes its some times not possible.
we were always told the section is between the red and blue gates , straight line,between reds one side and blues the other. no mater how far apart they were.

[Big John]

I'm almost certain that it was in the ACU handbook some years ago, there was mention of the 'imaginary line' in the description of an observed section.

It suddenly 'disappeared', please don't ask me which year, for once I can't quote chapter and verse!

We have had this very arguement up here in Scotland at events and club meetings.

Personally I would have liked to see it re-introduced, but maybe John Collins will remember when and why it was removed.

Big John

[Pete_Scorpa3]

When you see the top riders inthe world doing this very thing, it's difficult to stop club riders from copying it.
There was a video clip on TC a couple of years back where the Championship riders rode all over the venue but within the boundaries of the easier support route. They missed out the difficult climb and simply nipped back into the 'intended' route just at the top. The clip is probably still on here soomewhere.
Totally out of order in my opinion, but it was allowed.

[SDC]

I would five the rider in your diagram Pete, not for the "imaginary line" but for "travelling in a forward direction against the direction of the section".

I did five Bruand for it in the last World round at Hawkstone, had a long argument with Doug and Fuji about it and told them I would five them if they did it.

[Woody]

Yes Pete, your diagram is the perfect illustration of what I am talking about.

Blatant cheating - much has been made of Alderson's bike swap in the SSDT but this is just as much of a cheat as that was. A trial can be won or lost by someone taking this cheat line and getting a clean when others have attempted it properly and lost marks. Can't understand why some observers allow it.

SDC - are you saying that you would have allowed it if the rider had done it but not gone against the direction of the section?

[Timp]

I thought the line between the side marker flags was not exactly a straight line but was what the course plotter intended.
We often lay out sections up steep banks and gulleys etc which will be far from being a straight line between the markers at the start and those at the end.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

The WTC clip was in the members section of TC, I just can't remember when it was, so I can't find it.

I just couldn't believe how far off the 'intended' route the riders were allowed to go and still get away with the clean.

[2/4]

The "straight line" was oft mentioned by older observers thirty-odd years ago but I never saw it written down and it would have meant a five for everyone when riding up a twisty burn unless an absurd amount of markers were used. However there's riding the intended route and there's taking the p***.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

Got it.

Section 1 Round 1 2007 WTC

Members Video HERE

Talk about the long way around!

I don't blame the riders for trying it and getting away with it, I just think the observer should have said "no, that's not the intended route. Go over there and you get a five!"

[SDC]

Quote

SDC - are you saying that you would have allowed it if the rider had done it but not gone against the direction of the section?

No. There is no such thing as the imaginary line so looping out is allowed to a certain degree but not taking the p**s, it then becomes travelling against the direction of the section.

The C of C should either have used tape od put in extra markers.

[TomsDad]

As a section setter and observer I have often wondered about the reality of this rule.

Whilst marking out I try to put myself into the position of the sneakyest rider and place the flags accordingly.

As an observer, once I get to the section I walk each route to try and spot any possible areas for rule bending. I try to imagine what the course plotters had intended.

As the riders arrive on thier first lap I find there is always some good natured banter. I let them know where the boundries of the section are BEFORE they ask !!!!

Providing you are not asking them to do the impossible and mearly go where the COC intended then they can't really argue.

It usually works quite well.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

If you watch the WTC video closely, you will see that the rider (very skillfully) rides over to the 'easy' route, goes up the easier climb and then at the top rejoins the 'intended' hard route just below the top of the hard climb, effectively missing out the hard part.
This demonstrates the 'imaginary'straight line issue perfectly.

[bdmc]

"Talk about the long way around"


In WTC trials there are 3 courses Red, blue and green. If you are riding the red course you are not allowed to go through any blue or green gates. Similar with other colours Blue cannot go through green or red.
In the video the rider is competing on the blue course. You will see miss the green gate, by the trees towards the end, and he attemps to ride to the right of a red marker very close to the end. When he goes through his gate (Blue) he is allowed to find his own way to the next set of blue gates without going through other colour gates.
I would have 5 him before he got to the hill because he crosses over his own track earlier on when he does a 180deg turn to part climb the hill.
I recieved a lot of stick at hawkstone for 5ing the red route riders who droped thier front wheel through a blue marker near the beginning of the section. Observed correctly I say.

Riding out of the boundaries is a hot potato. Hopefully the observer will nip it in the bud on the 1st lap. The course plotters can try and block the short cuts with part tape, or give the observer some tape and if the observer sees a short cut he is allowed to tape it off. I understand that he would have to have some experiance as an observer for this to work.