12 replies to this topic

[borus]

i've redone (greased) all the connections and grounds but my spark is still intermittent.
plus:
pulled flywheel and cleaned (it didn't need it)
new plug
removed kill sw

does anyone have the "correct ohm specs" for the stator?

while i have spark my readings at the stator cdi plug are:

all reading taken on normal resistance setting (diode setting not used for these)

red- 41 ohms
green - 450 ohms
black,blue,brown - infi.
yellow - 1 ohm
white - 0 ohms

coil lead - 1083 ohms

when i don't have spark the black/white kill switch wire from the cdi has voltage but the orange coil wire has no voltage?

also, can i assume that if i have a problem with my stator my red / green readings would be incorrect?

cheers

Edited by borus, 10 March 2009 - 02:22 PM.

[copemech]

Uh,oh!

To be honest, I don't even know where the schematic is on these things! Might help if I knew what went to what! Helps make logical sense of it anyway.

As mine is not dual map, do not know how similar they are, but I think there is just one added wire that grounds to change the map.

I can maybe take some readings off mine this week, if it will help. My good meter is at work.

MC

[tony27]

Just replaced 2nd stator in my jarvis & these are readings for new stator-think cdi is where dual map differs

green/red 555 ohms
green/white 641 ohms
red/white 86 ohms

yellow/blue 1006 ohms
yellow/brown 1071 ohms
yellow/black 1070 ohms

Can't remember what colour other wire is but will give no reading to others
Importer here supplied me these readings to confirm before got stator from him, mine hated roadwork this time & would die for 1/4hr sometimes at end of long transition. Not good

Hope this helps Tony

[HAM2]

Yup, same symptoms of a Sherco I used to own;Spark when cold but when the bike got warm you couldn't get a spark for 10/20 mins in which time you had half stripped the bike looking for the fault,infuriating Hint, never turn the engine off

[borus]

my bike would loose spark after a 5 th gear hard run, a few minutes later it would come back, then the other day after 5 minutes of puttering around the driveway and in the past week it would be running, then next morning without touching it it wouldn't have spark, then later it would come back. the only variable was temperature??

when i don't have spark my question is why would i have spark on the kill sw black/wire but no spark on the orange coil wire coming from the cdi? as you can guess i don't want the problem to be an expensive cdi. both of these wires come out of the cdi together.

i'll take the exact readings of tony27 on my 2 map system to compare. i originally did all my readings to ground which doesn't seem to show much - i went by reading methods from a gasgas article i found, a least it gives me something to go by.

be nice to have a trouble shooting a-z article on sherco electrical systems, i can't even find a 2 map wiring diagram.

cheers
bob
trialsontario.ca

[ZIPPY]

Found this in Wayne's Help on the Sherco site.
Not sure if it is dual map or not. Probably not.
hope it helps, but if not hope I didn't waste too much of your time.

Wiring Diagram

[borus]

ZIPPY, on Mar 10 2009, 08:15 AM, said:

Found this in Wayne's Help on the Sherco site.
Not sure if it is dual map or not. Probably not.
hope it helps, but if not hope I didn't waste too much of your time.

Wiring Diagram

thanks, i did check that one out but i couldn't make sense of it, i don't think it's close to mine.

do you ride in windsor?, i was there last year in aug, i plan to go in aug this year.

cheers
bob

[ZIPPY]

Yep, I usually ride in Windsor with MOTA.

I am the goofball riding in black shorts, but I must admit I got the idea from a Canadian member of MOTA.

I won't be riding any Windsor events this year, I have no passport to get back into the States.
Crossing into Canada has never been a problem but the U.S. is getting much more strict.
I have this strange attachment to sleeping in my own bed. So getting back into the States is a must.


I think I remember seeing your bike there. pretty sure it was the only Caby there. Funny how we remember bikes and not the riders.
I checked out the trials Ontario website thought it was really nice to see the MOTA events in Windsor listed in the schedule. Should help boost attendance. The new passport requirement may cut down on how many come over from the States, we shall see.

Edited by ZIPPY, 10 March 2009 - 02:06 PM.

[borus]

here we go:

according to bradfords testing page: click me
quote:
But the Sherco triggers are different,set your test meter on the diode setting put the black test lead to earth with the red lead test between blue brown black you should get a reading something like 0 – 1018- 1100.Reverse the leads and the reading should be something like 635- 661- 661 your readings might not be the same but should show the same pattern,all different meters have a different internal resistance.In each case I can repair either.

here's my stator readings with spark this am - lol

note: w is ground and y gives same readings as ground

all readings on diode resistance setting:

g-r - 373
g-w - 412
r-w - 41

meter black lead on yellow
y-blue - infi
y-br - 1855
y-bl - 1850

leads reversed, red lead on yellow

y-blue - 741
y-br - 786
y-bl - 788

your readings may vary with a different meter but the pattern should be same -

cheers
bob

[copemech]

It just seems to me that the basic problem in ohming these things out is the fact that you are not neccessarily able to catch them in a "failed state" due to either to the internal or external operational temps of the components. In Borus case, it sounds as though there is a failure of the charge or trigger coil under operational load and developed heat.

By the the time you can test them, things resort to normal readings! Crap! And with no schemata, the fact that Borus still has voltage at one point(charge) does not mean that he is recieving it at the other(trigger). I think the trigger will be a low voltage signal to the controller. I know from grabbing things that the kill switches can have some high voltages on the primary side of the coil, possibly 60-70 volt range. They can really shock you!

I am just rambling thoughts here as i have no operational referance to go by, yet logic still dictates (hopefully), but really, some ocilliscope readings would be helpful under operation, and may reveal something. Not that I haveth stuff to fix it anyway!

[copemech]

I have found some specs, yet cannot copy and paste them.

Seems everything on the stator side of the wires to the ignition unit(disconnected) refences to the white wire(common).

So tester (- neg) to white, the rest:
Supply coils
Green 620+-60 ohms
Red 82+- 10 ohms

Hall effect coils
Brown 3M-7M ohms
Black 3M-7M ohms
Blue OL or more than 10M ohms

Yellow 0.9+- 0.2 ohms (this drives fan and lights)

These are ambient temp specs!


The newer ones with dual map and eight pole system are only slightly different with the supply coils measuring:

Green 550+- 60 ohms
Red 65+-10 ohms

I have no specs on the control units at this time, but would suspect they would also ref off the white wire as a base!

[borus]

thanks copemech

that certainly comfirms my research also.

my key reading are:

w-r - 41
w-g - 412

i'll have to get another meter on it to check against my cheap meter but if these readings are correct looks like i might have a stator issue. i still have spark and runs fine since removing my kill/light sw. but i think another failure is lurking.

cheers
bob

[copemech]

borus, on Mar 17 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

thanks copemech

that certainly comfirms my research also.

my key reading are:

w-r - 41
w-g - 412

i'll have to get another meter on it to check against my cheap meter but if these readings are correct looks like i might have a stator issue. i still have spark and runs fine since removing my kill/light sw. but i think another failure is lurking.

cheers
bob

Even at 41 and 412, as compared to the 82 and 620 specs, the numbers only sound scuwed, possibly by the meter! Doubt both coils would fail at the same time.

If you have had luck with the bar switch off, I would test it in action again. I hate those things!

To be honest, I would do away with the map switch, myself. Cannot tell much difference anyway.