motopat Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 hello, just bought a second hand Yamaha TYZ250 (1998 version) and after having a 'play' for a couple of hours yesterday I have noticed some things... being my first trials bike I am not sure if this is 'normal' Firstly, from cold the clutch doesn't work fully disengaging (sp?) the drive, and so the bike 'creeps'. This only happens for a few hundred meters maybe, until things have warmed up. It then behaves faultlesslty (AFAIK). Is this normal? Would an oil change help things? (I haven't done anything to it yet because I only just bought it sat and was dying for a play on it ) Also I noticed the cooling fan came on quite quickly, is extended use OK? - I am frightened it may be overheating (again - not checked coolant level yet) The gearshift is a bit dissapointing too - it goes in easy enough, but with a bit of a 'crunch' - I guess I am more used to roadbikes, but is it something I should be worried about? Last thing (for the mo ) is a manual available on the internet for downloading? Thanks muchly, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Hi Motopat. I've had a few TYZs. They are a good, solid, reliable bike, last a long time and can take a lot of abuse. There aren't any inherent problems with the clutch. I've had occassions where the clutch doesn't disengage at all from cold when you first put it into gear but as soon as it frees off there are no further problems. I've never had it creep forward though. Sounds obvious, but is it correctly adjusted on the cable? If the bite point is too close to the bars it may cause creeping but can't see how that would disappear as the engine warms. Is the cable ok or could that be sticking and slowly releasing itself after you have released the lever. A warped plate perhaps? I've never heard of them but don't know for a fact it doesn't happen. Depends on how much abuse it's had. The TYZ will take a lot but everything has it's limit... I'd change the oil as a matter of course as you've just bought the bike and see if it improves. Any of the modern gear oils should work ok. If it doesn't clear, you may have to check the plates. Gearboxes again are good. Most bikes will crunch occasionally when selecting at a standstill, but the TYZ will generally snick in and out quietly with no problem. Maybe linked to the clutch problem. The fan issue is difficult to answer. If the bike isn't losing coolant I wouldn't worry. You could just replace the thermostat for peace of mind. TYZs are fine for prolonged use and are a very reliable, virtually bullet proof engine. I've never had one overheat. I've thrashed mine around the Scottish six day, wringing it's neck everywhere all week at 82mph which is flat out and it's never lost so much as a thimbleful of coolant all week. You should be able to get a manual from a Yamaha dealer if still in print but not sure. I've no idea of the cost though. As far as I know there isn't one available to download from the net. However, I may have a spare manual for the 1998 bike that I could sell as the bike I have now is a '95 and I have a manual for that. I'll check and let you know. Finally, an excellent source for info on the TYZ is Nigel Birkett as what he doesn't know about them isn't worth knowing. Any problems you ever have he should be able to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Woody has got al the good gen in his post, you can't go wrong with thm really. The manuals are spot on, I kept mine as I traded in for a Scorpa SY and as they share the same engine I thought it would come in handy. The only other bike that comes close on the manual front is a Mont. It does make me wonder why the other manufatures can't produce a good manual, those that have seen a TYZ book will know what I mea I think the clutch drag will go when you change the oil. Its a sure sign that the oil is past its sell by date, my SY drags when the oil is kaput. I use Putoline GP10, its a 2 stroke gearbox oil, tons of MX'ers use it and you know what a thrashing their bikes get. The gearbox holds 600cc of oil, make sure you use a good socket on the sump plug (think its 13mm?) as its made of toffee and will round if not carefull. Some people take a bolt of the side near the gear change, I use to do this but found it near impossible to get all the oil out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobbly1 Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 I had the same problem with a clutch on a TY Pinky - a little bit older but I guess they use a similar clutch. The clutch was out of adjustment when I bought it. There is a mark on the crankcase that the clutch operating arm should line up with. The adjustment is carried out using an adjustment screw in the centre of the clutch housing. After adjusting there was still some drag on the clutch but this disappeared after a couple of oil changes. As Boofont says, clutch drag is usually a sign of dirty oil. Might take a couple of changes to flush out all the crap thats accumulated over the years. Try signing up to the TY Yahoo group and you'll get loads of good info. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ty-list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motopat Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 get a manual from a Yamaha dealer if still in print but not sure. I've no idea of the cost though. As far as I know there isn't one available to download from the net. However, I may have a spare manual for the 1998 bike that I could sell as the bike I have now is a '95 and I have a manual for that. I'll check and let you know. Thanks for the info guys. Have you located your manual Woody? If not I can make enquiries at the my local shop to try and source one. I'll have a look over the bike on the weekend - check cables, coolant, change grarbox oil, Etc. Incidentally, I have some Silkolene comp 4 4stroke gearbox oil in my garage from my previous bike. I think from memory this is semi-synth. Would it be OK in my little smoker? Cheers, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Wasn't in last night so didn't get chance to look. I'll check tonight and let you know. Pretty sure I still have one for the later bike. Early manual was one thick book but for later bikes it was split into two thinner books, not sure why. Not sure about the Comp 4 oil. May be ok but I don't know. To be safe I'd buy some proper gearbox/clutch oil as it is less than a tenner for a litre. I use silkolene light gear oil and it works fine. Boofont said it takes 600cc but I think it may be 800cc. It is displayed on the clutch case by the filler plug so you only have to look there to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motopat Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) thanks Woody the bike is still at my mate's farm, but I' am hoping to get it home to give it some tlc and 'get to know her'. cheers, pat Edited November 9, 2004 by motopat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Just checked up on the manuals. Yam book says 700ml and the Scorpa one says 600. I once had a litre in the SY, note earlier post: Some people take a bolt of the side near the gear change, I use to do this but found it near impossible to get all the oil out. Seemed to work ok but I got masses of clutch drag. I think what happend was that I thought I was removing all the old oil and then adding 600ml. I guess there must have been some left in because when I used my measuring jug (instead of the old washing up bowl I normally use) it filled to a litre! Whoops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwilson Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 I have an 03 SY-250 and sitting level it takes just over 500 ml for the oil to run out of the oil level indicator plug. I use 500 ml of Mobil 1 automatic transmission oil. I drain the oil using both the bottom and left side plugs. I tip the bike over almost flat to get the oil out of the left side plug. Here is the link to the Scorpa manual. Scorpa manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Page 7 of the Scorpa pdf states .60l. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwilson Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Page 3 of the PDF Owners Manual says to run more pressure in the rear tyre than in the front. Believe not, everything you read in the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Page 3 of the PDF Owners Manual says to run more pressure in the rear tyre than in the front. Believe not, everything you read in the manual. Hey df, its your call mate. I shall be sticking with 600, bearing in mind that the manual I kept from my old TYZ days says to use 700 I think dropping to 500 maybe a little low. Do you notice any thing differant from using just that little bit less oil then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwilson Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) Boo, When I first got the bike it had Mobil 1 motor oil (not sure of the weight although it was thick) and you had to idle for about ten minutes before you could put it in gear with out a big surprise. When I changed to Mobil 1 syn tran oil I noticed a lot less drag in the higher gears and I can put it in gear right away without much clutch drag. When I put in 600ml of syn tran oil I started noticing the drag again in the high gears but the clutch was still OK. Several other SY-250 riders I know use 500 ml. Ciao Doug Wilson Edited November 9, 2004 by dfwilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Motopat - I've found a manual. I think it is for the later bike as it is the 2 part one. Doesn't really make any difference though as the info you will want from it will cover all models, such as oil quantities, fork oil etc. The things that changed on the bikes over the years won't really affect general servicing. These were different ignitions, rear shocks, front pipe, longer/shorter tail pipes and the later bikes had a spacer under the top yolk to raise the bars to compensate for the high footpeg position but that's about it. The only thing you may notice is that if you ever need to remove the flywheel yours may not be the same as the one in the manual and therefore need a different puller. All you would need to do is give your dealer the engine number and they can supply the correct puller. Or you could make one. Whilst talking about servicing, if your front forks work ok I'd leave them alone as they are a sod to work on. Straightforward enough, just time consuming. If you do ever need to change the oil set the level to 95mm. 10 weight works ok for me. If I remember rightly, the manual says they take 440ish cc of oil per leg but you cant just fill them with this quantity. They have to be bled to fill all of the internal chambers, as per the manual. If you just fill them with 443cc it is way too much and they won't work. Once bled and the level set the final quantity is a lot less than 440cc. E-mail me your address to dajwood@aol.com and I will send it to you. It's in good condition apart from a slight water stain on the top of the first few pages due to a water leak in the garage, but it is ok, there is no deterioration or anything. Don't want anything for it as it is a spare. Once you've had a chance to get used to the bike there are a couple of things worth doing. As said before, footrests are quite high as it is an early 90s design so it is worth changing them for wider, modern type rests and moving them down and back a bit to get a better stance when standing on the bike. Standard position you can feel that you are tipped over the bars too much. Depends on your height as to whether this is causes you a problem or not. If you find the engine a bit quick off the throttle you can move the ignition stator to full retard to slow the response a bit. This won't hev any affect on the engine's power and it will still pull perfectly well, just won't hit so hard. TYZs don't have much steering lock so if it hasn't been done already you can'sculpture' the frame either side to allow more lock. Most have been done by now. Also have the fork legs protruding from the top yolk buy about 10mm to quicken up the steering. All this is personal preference of course and you may find the bike fine as it is, but these are some of the mods done. Hope you enjoy the bike. They may no longer be 'modern' but are still very capable and the best thing about them is the build quality which should give you hassle free riding. Mine is 10 years old, been through the scottish 6 day more than once and is still on original rings, shock linkage etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motopat Posted November 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 thanks a lot Woody and for the really useful info too. I'll private mail you my address and if you'd be kind enough to supply me with your's I'll send a cheque to you to cover postage and a bit more for your troubles. If you could mail it soon I may get it for the weekend Thanks again to all - I truly have found an excellent site full of excellent people . No doubt I'll have many more questions... cheers, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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