[The Addict]

Did hear talk yesterday at the trial that the move to non stop is not going to happen in WTC, is that correct?

[jordi]

I believe so, there was a press release I think put out last week.

[The Addict]

Talked to a couple of lads yesterday and they said about the WTC, they were not happy with going non stop, they love hopping about thats how they,ve been brought up and changing will without doubt loose a certain generation of lads/lasses to the sport. I,m glad it wont be non stop next year and hope the ACU will follow along with the Novogars, Trials is a small sport,always has been always will be,going non stop will have zero impact on getting more into it,promotion does that not rule changes.
If they want more riders in the WTC get rid of the minders and the massive steps only the few dare have a go at,

This post has been edited by The Addict: 08 November 2009 - 04:30 PM

[jordi]

Sorry have to disagree. people do not start riding trials because they like hopping about, they ride because basically they like riding motorbikes.

[The Addict]

Jordi, did'nt say they did? yes people start as they are interested in bikes, Jo Public are always amazed at how modern Trials riders ride and what they do. I don't beleive for one minute the hopping puts their initial interest off the sport at all, moving to the B route can take years and theres no need to hop on the C route where they will start and very little need on the B route once they,ve progressed.
Our young riders want to emulate the top lads and what they do, kill the current rules and as I said we will loose alot of current youth within the next year I,m sure of it. Yes some will come back and new will still come in but I think the best way to go is to ban minders and helpers in the sections - stop the big stuff that the top lads p*** anyway and return to more tricky stuff we had years ago.

This post has been edited by The Addict: 08 November 2009 - 08:23 PM

[Nigel Dabster]

The Addict, on Nov 8 2009, 07:55 PM, said:

Jordi, did'nt say they did? yes people start as they are interested in bikes, Jo Public are always amazed at how modern Trials riders ride and what they do. I don't beleive for one minute the hopping puts their initial interest off the sport at all, moving to the B route can take years and theres no need to hop on the C route where they will start and very little need on the B route once they,ve progressed.
Our young riders want to emulate the top lads and what they do, kill the current rules and as I said we will loose alot of current youth within the next year I,m sure of it. Yes some will come back and new will still come in but I think the best way to go is to ban minders and helpers in the sections - stop the big stuff that the top lads p*** anyway and return to more tricky stuff we had years ago.

The last round you saw was where and when? France did have some sections with bigish steps but the biggest of all Wiggy got up well and he is the newest rider on the circuit. Steps are an integral part of trials whether its the 4 footer in the reeth 3 day or the 20 footer in france for the top lads. A few steps here and there are not stopping riders entering the wtc. The numbers entering the top route are the problem andthe answer isn't taking waway one minder or two or whatever, perhaps it is the severity wholly which is stopping entries, perhaps too many rounds too far away with no start money? Lets say they eased the trials steps lower or whatever who is going to start riding in 2010? Gibert Freixa Morris haslam sampson Gontard bethune oliveras Scafer Smage

[The Addict]

Have to admit Andrew I've not been to a WCT for many years now, seen plenty of video footage though but thats about the limit of my effort due to the circus it has become. The top lads can do the big stuff day in day out, they love it, bigger the section more advantage they have over the lesser lights in the sport, big/dangerous seems to equate to hard/difficult these past years and its not for the top guys, they just eat it up.

Yes costs must be horrendous to travel over the world when you already have a good idea you'll probably not get through the majority of the sections let alone have the odd clean, theres very little money in trials compared to other motosports, and to me unless you get right to the top not much incentive to try financially . If we are to increase WTC entries the sections need to be less servere and dangerous, get them back to more traditional type sections and venues so a countries top 20 plus riders can have a good go at everything rather than crashing and riding a quarter of every section. If I had a good think maybe I could come up with another sport that you can compete in but have no chance of completing, pretty much all sports whether Roadracing, Marathons, Darts etc etc you can compete and complete the event even if slow or last place, in Trials you can't. Why all these big sections? is that what has increased Trials crowds over the years and participation in the sport? don't think so, I for one would rather go and watch a Trial like the SSDT than a world round any day, I can relate to the sections and skills. The top lads now have skills that only the few can ever master, the sport doesn,t offer the rewards for most to make the effort to get to the top and the journey will be costly and painfull even if they try.

My hope is we can return the WTC back to 100 riders, juniors riding the same sections as the seniors, one lap of 40 sections, no minders and more traditional trials locations and sections that a countries top 20 could be happy with having an entry put in and knowing they'll get round but a tough day.

This post has been edited by The Addict: 10 November 2009 - 12:43 AM

[NZRalphy]

What he said.

WTC trials sections need to be realistic. It has taken me a while but now i agree with no-stop. Lets bring the sport back to what most people think is ride-able not the silly hippity hoppity (trademark ) stuff most riders can't do.

[manx2day]

Does anyone have or know where the press release is? I've just been looking on the FIM website and cannot find anything to do with next years rules.

Would be interesting to read it. If it's correct that WTC isn't going non-stop, it sounds as though Raga won his little fight! He seemed to be the only rider bothered about the rule changes. I heard that Bou was told before the end of the season to start practicing non-stop by Montesa because thats the way it was going to go.

[axulsuv]

I agree that no stop , less severe sections may help the longevity of our sport . Trials for me has always been a individual thing . Me against that rock /muddy spot/offcamber/slippery log/tight turn section . I also agree that watching some of the top level riders can get pretty intimidating . But I don't understand where the fun is in having some guy yell at you while your concentrating on riding , on where your tire has to go cause you can't see the next step/hole/turn/obsticle to position yourself in the proper spot . And the whole concept of needing someone to spot on almost every section cause even at the top level you've only got about a 50% chance of getting thru the section clean , and if your offline by a inch or two , you and or your bike are gonna get broke ... Without someone to catch you .
Well maybe not quite that bad , but still ...
Glenn

[jordi]

manx2day, on Nov 10 2009, 09:35 AM, said:

Does anyone have or know where the press release is? I've just been looking on the FIM website and cannot find anything to do with next years rules.

Would be interesting to read it. If it's correct that WTC isn't going non-stop, it sounds as though Raga won his little fight! He seemed to be the only rider bothered about the rule changes. I heard that Bou was told before the end of the season to start practicing non-stop by Montesa because thats the way it was going to go.

I,m blowed if I can find what I thought I read! I am sure it was on www.trial-club.net

[ishy]

axulsuv, on Nov 10 2009, 04:59 AM, said:

I agree that no stop , less severe sections may help the longevity of our sport . Glenn

Mebbe a clubman line could boost entries

[Baz_Huskinson]

I think a restructure in the wtc would help boost entries.

Maybe leave the top route how it is call it the elite route or trials 1 or something. I dont think it is worth dumbing it down so more people can do it, after all surely the point of the wtc is to promote competition between the top riders and define who is the worlds best.

The junior route i think have the sections a little easier but remove the age limit and call it an expert class or trials 2 or something. that way you could have more ex top route riders continuing to ride, and provide for riders who have become to old to compete in the class how it is now but for whatever reason never quite made the transfer to the top route.

Then all thats left is to have a youth class for 16 and unders on 125s possibly even on the same course as the expert/junior riders. but maybe hold that event on the saturday together with the womens world championships. otherwise there may be to much queing to get all the routes and riders round in one day.

The other reasons that the numbers of competitors have dropped over the years in wtc is fundamentaly down to cost. currently the top riders can earn a little bit out of a small wage from the manufacture or retainer to keep them riding a particular brand with a win bonus, aside from this each of the top riders have additional revenue from external sponsors like monster or red bull but those sorts of deals are only around for the ones who can get that company some coverage and raise the awareness of that brand. if you are a privateer paying for you, your minder, entry, 2 bikes, spares, the fuel, the tolls, and the ferry crossings, and the time off work is very difficult to justify if there is no way of making your money back through any sort of prize money. if the sport is not represented well on the telly then there is little chance that a privatier will attract anything more than some local sponsorship & therefore the only reason these sorts of riders participate is for personal pride, which is fine, but we all have to balance the books.

another way of removing some of these limitations would be to remove the need for a minder, the only reason anyone should need one is to catch the bike if the rider dosnt make it up an obstacle. how about the event organiser provide catchers designated to each section on the course that needs one, thus removing the need to bring your own. that way privateers could pair up and travel to events sharing the costs of the trip.

also i think the current stop permited rules as they are now are ok. however, there is one part i dont agree with. i have never liked seeing top riders being able to padle thier way out of a section for a 3, it looks crap to watch and it doesnt bring the best out of the riders. i come from cycle trials and there i think they have it sussed on this.
0 dabs = clean
1 dab = 1pt
2 dab = 2pt
3 dab = 3pt
4 dab = 3pt (observer yells last dab!)
5 dab, putting both feet down at the same time, falling off, snaping a tape, missing a gate, putting your hand on part of the course, exceeding the time limit = 5pts

i think its both clearer to the spectator what is going on and promotes every rider to try and ride the section even when its all going wrong. with the right promotion and commentator i think this would help people understand it all better.

then all you got to do is convince & educate some media graduates as to what is going on & to go and film it all, edit it, burn it, slap decent commentry on it and send it to eurosport or bbc or something.

oh and lastly the acu should help get our riders out to these events, it sickens me that if you are good eneough to represent your country then you should be there doing just that. not be limited by your bank balance. maybe they should knock down or sell off there offices in rugby and build a centre of excellence/ training facility for all sports they represent. failing that just dont use them and form a new group offering insurance etc

[bilc0]

But do the Teams want anymore rider's riding the WTC than what they allready have,I believe Not.
One of the reason's for not going back to WTC Non Stop was it would cost to much money for the Teams to change over,Lol,i'd say we've all been wound up.

[jordi]

Baz_Huskinson, on Nov 12 2009, 08:46 AM, said:

I think a restructure in the wtc would help boost entries.

Maybe leave the top route how it is call it the elite route or trials 1 or something. I dont think it is worth dumbing it down so more people can do it, after all surely the point of the wtc is to promote competition between the top riders and define who is the worlds best.

The junior route i think have the sections a little easier but remove the age limit and call it an expert class or trials 2 or something. that way you could have more ex top route riders continuing to ride, and provide for riders who have become to old to compete in the class how it is now but for whatever reason never quite made the transfer to the top route.

The overall number of entries at a WTC is not really the issue, only the WTC rider numbers themselves. The issue of scoring may be interesting, but isnt it a case of mainly clean or five in a lot of sections at this level. It seems that a 3 is a case of rushing to meet the time limit.

This post has been edited by jordi: 12 November 2009 - 07:15 PM