52 replies to this topic

[The Addict]

Eddie_Lejeune, on Mar 26 2010, 11:01 PM, said:

I have owned 13 betas so I know plenty about their build quality- if these bikes are so good why are we not all riding them I dont see all of lampkins stuff up for auction

How many 4rt's though? the Mont doesnt sell because of the price and people not giving them a good go/chance. Availability has also been a problem in the past, I know riders who have pre ordered and waited months for them eventually swapping for another make due to sick of waiting.
Most of us do Trials as a hobby, many of us are highly competitive even at clubman level, buy a bike one day thats completely different and you struggle with the extra weight and grip charachteristics and have 2 or 3 poor results you sell it and say its ****e, thats the biggest problem for Mont. I have never known a bike ever that has been given such a slagging, unjustified in my opinion its just not many give the bike a good chance (to impatient for results)

Edited by The Addict, 26 March 2010 - 11:19 PM.

[cleanorbust]

jimmyl, on Mar 26 2010, 10:32 PM, said:

If you've ridden a 4rt once and not liked it then you have no right to comment here - fact!!!.

If you've owned one for 6 months or more and don't like it or had had bad experience then carry on adding to this post.

Having ridden Monts relatively successful over the last 10 years plus, the 4rt is a different beast and you need to own one to make any valid comment.
They are maybe not the best to hop and flick but given a proper trial they are still very good - best bike i have ridden in SSDT. Flattered my ability!!!!.
Trouble is lots of people think they are Raga or Dabil and buy world champ class bikes when they are club champ riders at best - I think the demands are like chalk and cheese. John Lampkin has said the 200cc Beta is probably a superb clubman bike but probably sells few -the 4rt I thinks is a bit like this. Set it up right, learn to ride it and you have a very competitive reliable trials bike - just not fashionable
But I could be bias

Yes, you could be.

[The Addict]

Quote

"you've got to ride it with extra care, it doesn't grip that well."

Not the best way to explain it, it does grip but you have to learn how it does it, believe me its nothing like a 2 stroke, ride it like that and it won't, too many spat the dummy out on 4rt's after a matter of weeks and did'nt learn how it grips

[cleanorbust]

The Addict, on Mar 26 2010, 11:25 PM, said:

Not the best way to explain it, it does grip but you have to learn how it does it, believe me its nothing like a 2 stroke, ride it like that and it won't, too many spat the dummy out on 4rt's after a matter of weeks and did'nt learn how it grips

Yes, I'm sure you're right, in fact I seem to remember someone called Lampkin there that day who could make it grip on anything, riding one-handed. Just that I couldn't ride it for toffee - the bike was clearly way too good for me and given my lack of skill I doubt I'd ever have been comfortable with it.

[GaffaMont]

It's funny to note that the only people on this thread that are being negative about our beloved 4RT are the people that don't own/like, had a quick go on one once or bought one as it was the latest thing, try to ride it like a 2-stroke then complain about them.
For the record, i have had (since my return to trials in 2002) a Sherco and three Beta's, and had problems with all of them, i have had 2 315's, and i am now on my second 4RT, and all four have been the most reliable bike's i have had, though i will admit, that the 4RT is too expensive, and too loud.
Lastly, i have ridden 2-stroke most of my trials life, when i first jumped on a 4RT just to have a go, it all made sense, i now find 2-strokes difficult to ride, don't get me wrong, i'm nothing all that special myself, it's just that the 4RT suit's me. That's where some people miss the point, it's what you enjoy riding and what you get on with.
Regards (to all my fellow 4RT riders).
GaffaMont.

[cleanorbust]

No complaint from me about the 4RT, as I say it's probably too good for me!

I will agree it's unnecessarily loud though, for what's a beautifully mellow booming round the local woods to a 4T enthusiast is a damnable racket to Joe Public.

That, however, is a whole different issue. To get back to the point of the original post, yes the 4RT has probably had its highest moment of popularity, but its done a lot to add variety, interest and viable choice to the trials scene.

[Lightfeet]

So come on then how do you ride it so that it grips, I've had my 07 Repsol about 5 weeks now and whilst I'm not really having noyicable grip problems it's always nice to get some tips. I love mine, the only thing Ive had to mess with is gearing but that's just personal, think I've got it right now at 9/41

[Fivemeister]

Quote

So come on then how do you ride it so that it grips

Same as any four stroke - minimal clutch. The grip issues come when traction is broken (by feathering the clutch) half way up a slippery bank for example. Re introducing drive causes the break in traction as the 4 stroke power characteristic is initially too severe (on intial take up) and spins the wheel rather than bites. If you leave the clutch alone and keep a controlled throttle, the machine chugs up anything.

Hope this makes sense?

[The Addict]

Fivemeister, on Mar 27 2010, 09:23 AM, said:

Same as any four stroke - minimal clutch. The grip issues come when traction is broken (by feathering the clutch) half way up a slippery bank for example. Re introducing drive causes the break in traction as the 4 stroke power characteristic is initially too severe (on intial take up) and spins the wheel rather than bites. If you leave the clutch alone and keep a controlled throttle, the machine chugs up anything.

Hope this makes sense?

A very good description of how I get plenty of grip mate, if you need to get back on the power up a slippy bank "game over" so make sure you have enough at the bottom to get up easy and roll over. When taking off, big big revs and feed the clutch in over first 10 foot or so, dont light the back up, leave the clutch alone as much as you can, and chug up most hills with a steady throttle, dont play about with the revs. The IRC is made for the 4rt and I have 9/43 gearing so allows much less use of the clutch at all times. Really big slippy climbs hold the bugger flat out, full chat and dont reduce the revs, if the front lifts use the clutch to bring it down not the throttle, i've not quite mastered this but it definatley works if you can hang on and keep up with the bike.

Edited by The Addict, 27 March 2010 - 06:44 PM.

[Fivemeister]

Yep - biggest challenge on my 3004t evo is a tight change of direction ( for example an S shape) up a steep greasy bank - very hard to do as described above without using the clutch to some degree.

[thedishes]

hi all. i have had my 4rt for 3 years now and i must say its the best bike ive ever had, brilliant fun totally reliable and puts a smile on my face every time i use it. never had a problem finding grip as the addict says the irc tyre seems to work well with the 4rt in muddy conditions and a michelins great for rocky streams and in the dry. the biggest problem i had was stalling the bike when it was new ha ask the addict as he was there to watch my nice trips over the bars. a change of gearing 9/42 or 43 and faster tickover cured the problem. my bike has been used twice a week sometimes more if im in the good books since new and each session a min of 4 hours, the engine is as strong now as it was new which is more than can be said for any two stroke. while on the subject of 2ts i recently tried my friends beta evo,s a 250 and 290 on a muddy climb the mont i could wheelie out the top of the climb the beta,s i failed miserably each time, had to give them back in the end before they got damaged. im not dishing the beta in any way just trying to say if i ever went back to a 2t i would have to change my riding style to suit. WIEGHT PROBLEM with showa suspension front and rear the best on any trials bike i really dont notice the bike is any heavier to ride compared to any thing else although putting the bike in the van or stand at the end of the day its a bit of a lump conpared to my lads 300 gasser. RELIABLE in the 3 years i have owned bike no problems replaced rear suspension bushes once and just the usual pads chain sprockets etc + oil and filters. NOISE fitted mitani silencer bike runs even better less engine braking and softer quieter noise. as you can probably tell i am a montesa 4rt fan through and through i agree they are to exspensive but not looking so bad now when you look at new gasser racing £5200 i think more help from the importer or honda in this country to get decent riders on board and run a profestional team would have made the bike more popular. we have a local expert <nutcase> who rides with us on a 4rt and he certainly makes everyone sit up and take notice of what the bike can do.

[The Addict]

Well said mate , 4 hours my a***, 8 more like

[Woody]

thedishes, on Mar 27 2010, 09:22 PM, said:

the engine is as strong now as it was new which is more than can be said for any two stroke.

I don't usually get involved in the 'what's best' discussions but the 4RT has a long way to go yet before it can come close to a TYZ Yam for reliability and a genuinely bullet proof build.

As for grip in mud, there are some conditions where the 4RT just will not go. I know, I had one and I can ride pretty well in mud. I've seen better riders than me, very good riders in fact who are at the sharp end of Novogar rounds, give up with the 4RT.

A trial at Kinlet, a simple section, standing start in mud with a bikes length before a small bank to shoot up followed by a gradual incline twisting through some trees. My 4RT wouldn't touch it. It needed 4th gear flat out just to get up the first bank and only then with leg work to help it. After the trial, tried again with same result, 1st, 2nd and 3rd were useless, 4th needed legwork. Not just me, others tried it too. On my mate's old '97 315 we were p***ing through it for cleans in 1st. Nothing wrong with tyres, set up etc. Just couldn't get grip at the start of the sub because it was thick gloopy mud with a soft base underneath and it just wouldn't dig in. Fine on some other muddy sections but not sections like that one.

I wouldn't have another. I've nothing against them, a variety of bikes on the market is good, but I don't think they are a good novice bike, you need to be a skilled rider to stand a chance of riding them well in mud as they don't forgive mistakes. On rocks they aren't so bad, suspension at the rear is the best I've tried, front was no better than anything else. The high tickover I hated as it meant having to constantly use the clutch in nadgery as it couldn't be ridden on just the throttle with the high revs and the clutch (05 bike) was typically Honda trials - crap, just like the 315 I had and just like TLR twinshocks.

Proper Repsol replica in full works colours has to be the best looking trials bike for a long time though. Just a shame the colours/graphics of the Repsol replica that Honda offered was nothing like that... If they'd offered the proper colours for a reasonable price I believe they'd have sold loads of them.

[Marky G]

What about the Beta fourstroke Woody? I've never had the pleasure of either but I do like fourstroke but I admit they can be 'different' to ride.....I've had a few older TLR's and one of the first Scorpa fourstrokes.

I was looking at a beta fourstroke in my mates shop the other day, very compact, does not look much different from the rev3.

[Lightfeet]

Fivemeister, on Mar 27 2010, 09:23 AM, said:

Same as any four stroke - minimal clutch. The grip issues come when traction is broken (by feathering the clutch) half way up a slippery bank for example. Re introducing drive causes the break in traction as the 4 stroke power characteristic is initially too severe (on intial take up) and spins the wheel rather than bites. If you leave the clutch alone and keep a controlled throttle, the machine chugs up anything.

Hope this makes sense?

The Addict, on Mar 27 2010, 06:41 PM, said:

A very good description of how I get plenty of grip mate, if you need to get back on the power up a slippy bank "game over" so make sure you have enough at the bottom to get up easy and roll over. When taking off, big big revs and feed the clutch in over first 10 foot or so, dont light the back up, leave the clutch alone as much as you can, and chug up most hills with a steady throttle, dont play about with the revs. The IRC is made for the 4rt and I have 9/43 gearing so allows much less use of the clutch at all times. Really big slippy climbs hold the bugger flat out, full chat and dont reduce the revs, if the front lifts use the clutch to bring it down not the throttle, i've not quite mastered this but it definatley works if you can hang on and keep up with the bike.

OK cheers for info will try that, although I think thats pretty much what im doing anyway.