15 replies to this topic

[Old trials fanatic]

My reason for posting this is because i am confused as to the differences on rules for Trials between the ACU and the AMCA. Now every year the ACU publish a handbook which is sort of clear, actually some of it is very badly unthought out but at least it's something, with regards to the rules of the sport and the construction of the bikes especially the Classic Pre65 and Twinshocks. However after trawling the AMCA website, because i have never seen an AMCA handbook and neither has anybody else i have asked, i cant find any "rules".

Now i know the ACU clubs use the front wheel spindle as the "marker" for being in or out of the section whereas the AMCA seem to use front wheel in rear wheel out, well most of the AMCA Trials i have ridden in have, as a "marker".

As for machine rules and regs are there ANY for the AMCA???

Reason i am asking re the machine construction is recently at an AMCA trial i noticed a Suzuki RL competing with disc brakes front and rear along with an hydraulic clutch. Now i know this is against the ACU rules, although some ACU clubs seem to turn a blind eye to them, but is it against the rules applying to AMCA Trials ?????

Surely it's a big unfair advantage having disc front and rear brakes along with the hydraulic clutch.

Cant be fair on the guys riding Twinshocks who got beaten by what at an ACU trial would be an inelegable bike can it ?

I know if the bike in question turned up at my club, an ACU affiliated one, i would allow him to ride but would exclude him from the results due to him riding an ineligable machine.

Just wondered what the rules say for AMCA clubs as if disc front and rear are "legal" along with the hydraulic clutch, have seen a Trigreeves also with an hydraulic clutch also competing regularly and winning championships at AMCA events, then perhaps it's worth a trip to the local breakers to pick up a modern front end and rear wheel ?

Anybody know if there are any rules and regs for AMCA then ??

[jon v8]

Yes,there is - I have a copy of the 2009 version but not this years.Seems to me that AMCA clubs sort of interpret the rules as they see fit,bit like the french with EU rules......
Which prompted me to actually look.Page 4,section 10 states,"Machine eligibilty is left to the discretion of the event organiser,however machines allowed must be clearly stated on the entry form or any supplementary regulations issued for each event."
Which sounds fair enough to me,it allows some flexibility for clubs to steer things.(Which is just what I'm trying to do with the Bath Classic club.)

[Big John]

Old trials fanatic, on Aug 14 2010, 11:28 AM, said:

Reason i am asking re the machine construction is recently at an AMCA trial i noticed a Suzuki RL competing with disc brakes front and rear along with an hydraulic clutch. Now i know this is against the ACU rules, although some ACU clubs seem to turn a blind eye to them, but is it against the rules applying to AMCA Trials ?????

Surely it's a big unfair advantage having disc front and rear brakes along with the hydraulic clutch.

I can see a big advantage in having disc brakes fitted on a twin-shock bike, but I'm not that convinced that a hydraulic clutch is all that an advantage, especially as a "normal" cable operated clutch can be made one finger operational with a bit of thought. Disc brakes are an absolute no no as far as I'm concerned (OK I know Dalesman flirted with them when Gaunty rode for them in 1969)

Interesting article in this months Classic Dirt Bike by Alan Wright about fiddle Pre65 and how it has become a rich man's sport (which it has really) Its a pity we couldn't have original Pre65 make a return.

As I have said before twin-shock is the "new" Pre65!

Oh yes, almost wandered off topic, sorry I haven't a clue about AMCA rules OBF!

Big John

[Old trials fanatic]

,"Machine eligibilty is left to the discretion of the event organiser,however machines allowed must be clearly stated on the entry form or any supplementary regulations issued for each event."

Thanks for that John. So does seem to leave it wide open for exploitation at AMCA events. Think one of those air cooled monoshocks converted to twinshock would be best for AMCA events then. Perhaps i should reconsider one? Thats said tongue in cheek BTW for the more sensitive viewers

BJ thanks for your posting "Interesting article in this months Classic Dirt Bike by Alan Wright about fiddle Pre65 and how it has become a rich man's sport (which it has really) Its a pity we couldn't have original Pre65 make a return." Makes me wonder though which bike i would have to choose to be competitive if that ever happened ? Personally would sooner ride a modern in the over 50 class but thats me. Never ridden an "original Pre65" that i wanted to ride ever again but whatever floats your boat.

Does seem to be a bit strange that a "governing body" lets each club decide on what is elegable or not. Sounds like a recipe for disaster and finger pointing to me.

Perhaps for once we should applaud the ACU for making an effort however ill thought out.

Thanks again guys

Edited by Old trials fanatic, 14 August 2010 - 08:30 PM.

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's
I am not going to get sucked into this one. But what I will say is, it is time to try something NEW.

PS Dont forget to come along to the Classic Trials Show.

Regards Charlie.

[Old trials fanatic]

charlie prescott, on Aug 15 2010, 07:42 AM, said:

Hi Guy's
I am not going to get sucked into this one. But what I will say is, it is time to try something NEW.

Regards Charlie.

I'm flabergasted Charlie. You thinking of buying a modern bike then ?

Cant make it to the show cos it's "She who must be obeyed's" birthday, 50th but dont tell anybody , so i've got to take her on holiday to somewhere were there isnt ant Trials bikes but i'm sure i'll miss a fantastic day out so best wishes for a glorious time warp event

[jon v8]

I'll be there on the Sunday,cant get there Sat cos I have to play vintage tractors at the village day.Not sure that the electronic ignition conversion on my Ariel will be done in time which is why I didnt try for an entry to ride.
Back nearly on topic,the only comment I would make about the way the AMCA rules go, is that at a local level individuals can have their voice heard and if they feel strongly enough they can get on a clubs commitee and make a difference. I'm trying to get the Bath classic trials back to a reputation that is welcoming to older bikes - many riders have complained that the trials are too hard,so they either ride in the o50 mono class or worse still they dont turn up at all.Could be an uphill struggle.....

[Old trials fanatic]

jon v8, on Aug 15 2010, 11:39 AM, said:

I'm trying to get the Bath classic trials back to a reputation that is welcoming to older bikes - many riders have complained that the trials are too hard,so they either ride in the o50 mono class or worse still they dont turn up at all.Could be an uphill struggle.....

Just a personal point of view but i just feel that "modern" and "Classic" bikes just dont mix anymore and the only way is to do what has happened locally namely break away and form a Classic Club for Pre 65 and twinshocks only. That way you run the severity of sections that suit the riders and bikes that take part plus you can run to the rules, preferably non stop and ENFORCE it, you want.

Back on topic i also agree that mambers should have their say in how the club is run but surely there has to be a set of rules that apply to trials run in that area as otherwise you will end up having one bike for one club and another bike for the other club. Unless you are an uncompetitive person but if you are then why do you ride in trials ? Surely just go out and practice.

NOT knocking anybody just feel the AMCA should have SOME rules that apply to all affiliated clubs ?

[jon v8]

We have an over 50 mono class,which I'm totally happy with,after all some of the riders are in their mid 70's and could no longer manage a pre unit big banger - so who would I be to ask them not to ride,on whatever they want to ? Esp as they have been riding since before I was born. My problem is when a couple of weeks back a bloke rang and asked if he could ride his mono in the over 50 class yet he was 47.What am I supposed to do - ask for his passport and turn him away ? I just told him if he wanted to cheat - he was only cheating himself,there were no awards anyway.
I dont know,I guess no one will ever be 100% happy,but I think clubs that are either called classic or advertise pre65 or twinshock trials should remember this when marking out - and remember that most of us,(Me included.) just want a fun day out,usually in beautiful countryside, riding around with other interesting old bikes,nattering about them etc and having a brew/bacon sarnie after.

[grindrod]

Machine eligibility has always been, and will always be a thorny subject not just in Classic Trials but in all 'Classic' disciplines. There has always been a few who would push the boundaries, often at great expense, to obtain any advantage. There was, allegedly, an £8k James competing in the trial I observed at today and a couple of highly developed Cubs that rode like modern bikes.

I regularly observe both ACU and AMCA, I have found most AMCA riders are unaware of the 'rear wheel spindle' ruling so to be honest I mark the same as ACU, I think consistency of marking is very important, as an observer you have to treat everyone the same, especially since you may know many riders personally!

The best course of action is to go along and watch (or better still offer to observe!) with the particular club you are considering riding with to judge what is acceptable, you will soon get a good idea, and chat with the officials (not during signing on!).

Just accept the fact that there will always be someone willing to spend more money than you and push the eligibility rules to the limit!

[jon v8]

Which section were you on yesterday ?

[Thedbf]

Old trials fanatic, on Aug 15 2010, 09:12 PM, said:

Unless you are an uncompetitive person but if you are then why do you ride in trials ? Surely just go out and practice.

Are you suggesting you have to be competitive to compete in trials ?

[grindrod]

jon v8, on Sep 6 2010, 07:20 PM, said:

Which section were you on yesterday ?

Hi Jon, I was on section 9:- into the stream, turn left, then either up the bank and left onto the track or divert around a tree to the right for the red route. A good section I thought, the red route was hard but not dangerous, no incidents at all. Everyone seemed to enjoy themselves especially once the rain stopped!! It was quite exciting riding the Alp, with a worn back tyre that I couldn't let down as it doesn't have a security bolt, back up to the start at the end of the event.

I never had more than 4 or 5 bikes waiting but I understand there were a few holdups elsewhere. Did you finish OK? I packed up my section at 2:30, there were 2 riders on 3 laps that I waited 10 minutes for but they didn't appear so I guess they packed in early.

It was good to see a mix of bikes being used, and good to see some of the youngsters on pre 65s and twin shocks.

Next event in 4 weeks I think?! See you there!

[jon v8]

Yours was a good section - a test of ability but not too tight,certainly not dangerous.But then none of them were.It was sections 1 and 2 that I thought were just too tight for any better riders on Pre 65 kit,they were bad enough on a twinshock,but seemed more appropriate for modern bikes.The B route looked excellent all the way through,wish I'd been riding my Ariel - that would have been a good ride.
Its a tough call,trying to mark out to please all,the weather didnt help much either,I think it caught all of us out.I was having bike trouble 1/2 way through my 2nd lap and went back to the car to sort it out,seemed to me that several people had gone home already,not seen any results so I dont know how many didnt finish.

[Old trials fanatic]

Thedbf, on Sep 6 2010, 08:25 PM, said:

Are you suggesting you have to be competitive to compete in trials ?

I would have thought by definition to "compete" you must therefore be "competitive" otherwise it's just "practice". Just my humble opinion

Either way the reason for the post was to try to clarify the difference in rules between ACU and AMCA events. The AMCA do seem to be very lacking in policing whatever rules they have if any. That leads to people blatantly cheating to the detriment of other riders who follow the rules of competition. All competitions must have rules otherwise they will not be fair competition.

I am not saying you should not enter a competition if you dont care where you finish or if someone on a bike which does not comply with the rules beats you i just wanted to get some form of clarification of the difference between the way the two governing bodies administer LOL our sport.

It appears a lot of people never bother to enter competitions they just go out and practice. Practicing for what i'm not sure but as long as they do it legally and dont cause the rest of us more problems then thats ok by me.