46 replies to this topic

[Old trials fanatic]

Changes to 2011 Trials Standing Regulations
Section/ Route Marking
It is recommended that routes be marked as follows: -
Route A - Principle Route - Blue ( left) Red ( right)
Route B - Yellow both sides
Route C - White both sides
Any further routes to be marked in a colour chosen by the Organiser
In the above, the letters denote the severity of the sections in descending order ie Route A
would be hardest, Route B next hardest and so on.
Routes may be marked in their entirety in the colours shown, or the Organiser may mark
appropriate diversions in these colours. Ideally, the coloured section of markers should
be in the shape of an arrow, with the point toward the centre of the section
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Now to follow this "recommendation" some clubs would have to scrap their current markers, us for instance, costing the clubs a LOT of money.

Yet another ill thought out decree from those who have little or no idea of what is happening at grass routes level.

Me i'm going to take it as a "recommendation" and carry on doing what we are doing as we cant afford to scrap our flags and buy new.

Perhaps it's the ACU's way of reducing the number of clubs in the East Midlands Centre, as some clubs would wish, by the back door?


Already posted in twinshock but thought it only appropriate to also post in this forum in case anybody from the ACU or elsewhere whishes to comment.

Edited by Old trials fanatic, 24 January 2011 - 08:54 PM.

[Timp]

Seems a good idea to me.
Be a good idea if the ACU could find a source for a standard flag with an arrow shape for all clubs to use if they wish.
If you already have good flags just wait till they need replacing then change to the standard flag.

[furse]

I think it makes sense too, markers arent that expensive if you look on old flebay for setting out markers, only thing is they are square and I think it would be a pain to try and get an arrow to stay pointing in!

[Gasserguy]

Great Idea.

Living on the border of 4 centres that all use differant colour marking systems does your head in
each week.

Just to top it not one uses that colour system.

The sooner we have standard colours the better and then lets have a standard
rider class instead of all these riders changing class every time they ride another centre.

It's just so comfussing and even more so for new riders to the sport. They can't understand
why we don't have ONE rule no matter what centre we ride in....

Gasserguy

[Pete_Scorpa3]

Gasserguy, on 24 January 2011 - 10:12 PM, said:

Great Idea.

Living on the border of 4 centres that all use differant colour marking systems does your head in
each week.

Just to top it not one uses that colour system.

The sooner we have standard colours the better and then lets have a standard
rider class instead of all these riders changing class every time they ride another centre.

It's just so comfussing and even more so for new riders to the sport. They can't understand
why we don't have ONE rule no matter what centre we ride in....

Gasserguy

[Old trials fanatic]

furse, on 24 January 2011 - 09:53 PM, said:

I think it makes sense too, markers arent that expensive if you look on old flebay for setting out markers, only thing is they are square and I think it would be a pain to try and get an arrow to stay pointing in!

Reckon it would cost us i.r.o. £400 minimum to replace route markers and stay in line with ACU recommendations. We aint got the money period. If any club member wants to buy us approx 400 markers/flags that comply then they will be most welcome.

Confusing? err it will be to all the Clubman, Intermeadiates and Experts across three classes who will ALL have to get used to riding different colour routes.

For what? are people really that thick they cant follow the flags as described in the riders briefing? Err they do actually walk the section as well and can always ask the observer? Then again seeing as i struggle to decipher some of the entry forms i'm not even sure some can even read or write.

Edited by Old trials fanatic, 24 January 2011 - 10:51 PM.

[petejohn]

Old trials fanatic the same thing is happening here. Someone has decided that this colour that colour for this and that. probably lost sleep over the decision. It is confusing for riders for the first 30 seconds. The important thing is that as long as someone sticks flags of whatever colour most are happy. So stick them in and they will come.
Pete

[crasher]

Old trials fanatic, on 24 January 2011 - 10:50 PM, said:

Reckon it would cost us i.r.o. £400 minimum to replace route markers and stay in line with ACU recommendations. We aint got the money period. If any club member wants to buy us approx 400 markers/flags that comply then they will be most welcome.

Confusing? err it will be to all the Clubman, Intermeadiates and Experts across three classes who will ALL have to get used to riding different colour routes.

For what? are people really that thick they cant follow the flags as described in the riders briefing? Err they do actually walk the section as well and can always ask the observer? Then again seeing as i struggle to decipher some of the entry forms i'm not even sure some can even read or write.

estc, pegasus, loughborough, peterborough have been using these colours for routes as described for years, always follow red/blue then deviation marked out by yellow or white,seems simple enough to me because thats what i've always ridden although i have ridden a few other differently marked trials but can't remember if i was "to thick" to follow the route easily or not!! (probably was)

[GrahamS]

It's true it would be great if there was consistency.
Unfortunately by suggesting a single colour for each alternative route then to avoid confusion it has to be that they are arrows not just flags and that means the increased cost of flags is likely to be ongoing rather than a one off.
Good job it's advisory and not mandatory.

[wri5hty]

£400 what do you make your flags out of?

[Pete_Scorpa3]

Fortunately this is almost exatly the system we use now, with small arrows (We use pairs of reds for the A route).
If you go the wrong side of the arrow with your colour on it then you've got no one to blame but yourself. It works very well indeed.

[Old trials fanatic]

We currently use red and blue for the intermediate route with the experts following the white deviation and the clubman following the yellow deviation. Works fine and as some have said if you go the wrong side of a flag or take the wrong route then it's your fault. However it's the arrows issue that is the problem as i cant figure a way of this working all day without it being firmly affixed to a post of some kind so it cant swivel round etc plus you will need them in all four colours. Our current "flags" are whatever i could find, usually made out of feed bags in the right colour, on bailing wire. Again works well enough. To have 400 stakes made c/w plastic coloured arrows that can swivel and be locked in position must cost at least a £1 each, i wouldnt sit and make them for that pittance believe me, which is how i arrived at £400.

It's alright for riders who cant be ar5ed to lay courses out, collect flags and cards, collate results, post results and keep a website updated as well as trying to make a living, have a life and keep my own bikes running, to whinge on about how confusing it all is for the poor little lambs to remember which colour to follow from one week to the next but try and see it from the club officials point of view. Most officials are struggling to keep the club going, for the benifit of the riders lets not forget who just turn up ride and bu66er off asap, and they cant afford to replace course markers on a whim just cos some people think it's easier than waking up.

Perhaps if riders paid a realistic entry fee then clubs could incorporate all these ideas. As it is riders sould think themselves lucky they have an event to ride at.

As somebody said "thank god it's just a recommendation and not mandatory" YET !!!!!! things have a way of becoming so.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

Old trials fanatic, on 25 January 2011 - 10:25 AM, said:

We currently use red and blue for the intermediate route with the experts following the white deviation and the clubman following the yellow deviation. Works fine and as some have said if you go the wrong side of a flag or take the wrong route then it's your fault. However it's the arrows issue that is the problem as i cant figure a way of this working all day without it being firmly affixed to a post of some kind so it cant swivel round etc plus you will need them in all four colours. Our current "flags" are whatever i could find, usually made out of feed bags in the right colour, on bailing wire. Again works well enough. To have 400 stakes made c/w plastic coloured arrows that can swivel and be locked in position must cost at least a £1 each, i wouldnt sit and make them for that pittance believe me, which is how i arrived at £400.

It's alright for riders who cant be ar5ed to lay courses out, collect flags and cards, collate results, post results and keep a website updated as well as trying to make a living, have a life and keep my own bikes running, to whinge on about how confusing it all is for the poor little lambs to remember which colour to follow from one week to the next but try and see it from the club officials point of view. Most officials are struggling to keep the club going, for the benifit of the riders lets not forget who just turn up ride and bu66er off asap, and they cant afford to replace course markers on a whim just cos some people think it's easier than waking up.

Perhaps if riders paid a realistic entry fee then clubs could incorporate all these ideas. As it is riders sould think themselves lucky they have an event to ride at.

As somebody said "thank god it's just a recommendation and not mandatory" YET !!!!!! things have a way of becoming so.

We are lucky as the colours we have in use now are the same as the new system, more or less, so it won't make any difference to us.
Won't the same apply with yourselves?

[twinshockdude]

LETS JUST GO BACK TO ONE ROUTE - PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!
IT WORKED OK IN THE 70`S

[jimmyl]

Once clubs gradually change to having the same coloured markers (regradless of design) and then start looking at how to introduce arrows then all the ACU clubs will be looking for the same solution. Therefore the potential to bulk buy, have something made bespoke to ACU trials becomes a real options. As the market would be there then the price should come down.
We maybe need to think of the slightly longer term benefits rather than how will it effect us tomorrow.