47 replies to this topic

[1oldbanjo]

 beta_trials, on 09 February 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

So i would be better off trying to find race fuel in other words

First: Test your local pump gas for ethanol. If it doesn't have ethanol...use it.

Second:If can find some local Racing Fuel - Try it and see if it works. It won't damage anything - it just may not run any better with it.

Third: If you can get Avgas at a decent price and it is not too far away - Try a gallon and see if it works for you. You will not damage anything - but it may not run any better with it.

Forth: Try local motorcycle shops to see if they carry VP, Klotz or other racing fuels - they can be pretty pricey and may not be necessary in a trials bike - but I know some people use them.

The only reason to try the Second and Third items is to avoid ethanol - if you can't find a source for pump gasoline without ethanol.

[cyclist]

Any ideas if this would help with the ethanol dilemma?

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

[beta_trials]

Well i just found the solution to my problem. Since my fiances dad runs a farm and i just checked with him that he does get and unblended mixture. so im set.

[axulsuv]

I'm lucky , There is a small airport about 5 miles from my house and I've been running av/gas for about six years now in all our bikes without any issues , And yes they've been tuned to use it ,well worth the effort to me over having to deal with ethanol in fuel , I see enough problems from it with the day to day cars at work ...
And have you heard the latest news ? Food prices expected to rise even more due to a corn shortage for livestock feed here in the US ... Seems our goverment has been giving our stockpiles to the ethanol producers to help them out ... And these people want to run our banks , auto industry and healthcare !!!
Glenn
On edit; And as little as I get to ride , the storage benefits of the fuel are a great plus for me too !!

Edited by axulsuv, 13 February 2011 - 05:24 PM.

[sir dabs alot]

Biggest problem I've heard and experienced is that the ethanol mix gas clogs carbs in no time flat along with staining fiberglass tanks. the local KTM dealer told me they do 10x the carb cleans per week than they did pre-ethanol days. A mixed blessing for dealer I assume.

I used to have to run a mix of race gas (110 octane) and high test gas (93 octane) in my GG to keep it from pinging. It also had better bottom end response with the higher octane blend. When I started riding Betas I found out I could get away with 93 octane with no ill effects. I recently bought a 1983 Montesa Cota with a fiber-glass tank and the owner advised me to find a source for non-ethanol gas unless i was OK with a brown gas tank or wanted to drain my fuel after every ride to avoid the staining.

Luckily, using the same 'Ethanol free gas stations in the US & Canada' site I found an ethanol free station within 15 minute drive from where I work. Nearest source for the race gas that I know of is 50 minutes drive but I pass by there frequently so I just get 2-4 gallons at the time and mix with some 93 octane.

Glenn, so you think I'd be OK to go straight 110 race gas or would you keep mixing?

Anyone know if there is any negative aspect to running straight 110 octane race gas in a 4RT?

Bottom line IMO is the current gas offering is just low quality crap like so many other things in our society these days in an effort to increase profitability! - Rant over!

[1oldbanjo]

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[1oldbanjo]

I do want to caution everyone not to trust the "ethanal free fuel" stations without testing. The Pure-Gas.org site listed a local station as having ethanol free fuel - but my test showed that it is blended with 10% ethanol and my discussion with the delivery truck driver confirmed that it is blended. I sent an email to the site and informed them and they added my comment - but for some reason they didn't change the site to remove this station from their site.

In an earlier post I described how to test for ethanol......and I beleive it is necessary to test any new fuel source to confirm that it is ethanol free. I also believe it is necessary to re-test frequently when getting a new batch of fuel - as the ethanol content can change with just one delivery of ethanol blended fuel.

[sir dabs alot]

 1oldbanjo, on 17 February 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do want to caution everyone not to trust the "ethanal free fuel" stations without testing. The Pure-Gas.org site listed a local station as having ethanol free fuel - but my test showed that it is blended with 10% ethanol and my discussion with the delivery truck driver confirmed that it is blended. I sent an email to the site and informed them and they added my comment - but for some reason they didn't change the site to remove this station from their site.

In an earlier post I described how to test for ethanol......and I beleive it is necessary to test any new fuel source to confirm that it is ethanol free. I also believe it is necessary to re-test frequently when getting a new batch of fuel - as the ethanol content can change with just one delivery of ethanol blended fuel.

Hey, I noticed your screen name is 1oldbanjo. The guy I bought my 4RT from makes custome bajos and restores old one. If you want his info PM me and I'll send it to you.

[trialsurfer]

I've been running 100, 110 and VP-C12 in my 4-RT and all work well, 93 does not run as well and the ethanol crap runs Worse still!

[axulsuv]

 Trialsin1, on 17 February 2011 - 02:45 PM, said:

Glenn, so you think I'd be OK to go straight 110 race gas or would you keep mixing?

At some point a high octane rating becomes overkill , but it will not damage your bike ...,some tuning may be wanted to make the most of it though .
Clean quality fuel is very important to us trials guys, as a misfire or surge or hesitation at the wrong time can be quite painful !!! And I would keep any ethanol blended fuel far away from a fuel injected bike too ...
And to the question about startron additive , I use it in my lawnmower and weedwacker and tell my streetbike riding customers to use it too , a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure ! (and the marine industry seems to love the stuff too ...!)
Glenn

[trialskat]

Ethanol in gasoline is a waste of money but the "Corn Lobbyists" are lining the Senate and Congress pockets to dump it on U.S. (us/we). Ethanol has an affinity for moisture and will draw it into your tank out of the air. Ethanol @10% will cost you 10% to 20% fuel economy loss. Ever seen the metal filler neck all corroded in a car/truck?
My '93 GasGas JT250 had a prisitne tank all it's life when I was using a 50/50 mix of 110 LEADED purple (Sunoco) or C12 VP LEADED and 93 octane pump gas. used the same stuff in my '74 TY250. No problems for years until about a year and a half ago I made the mistake of switching to Sunoco 100 clear race fuel with same pump gas. Didn't notice it right away but my fuel tank "grew" in all directions until it will no longer sit down on the frame. The new Yamaha OEM fuel cap had to be relieved and greased the threads (silicone grease)to be able to tighten it down. I had a hard time unscrewing it the first time since last year. The cap had swollen so tight I almost had to use pliers but I managed without that.
Funny thing is the original Yamaha cap had actually shrunken until it was a straight drop in and will not thread at all. I obtained a NOS cap and it worked perfect until the ethanol race fuel. Maybe I'll soak it in ethanol/gas to see if it will grow!!!! Say What? NO No I ain't goin' there!

Here in Arkansas we do have ethanol free mid and Premium grade gasoline. I have read there is even ethanol free regular 87 octane. I will use that in my car and truck etc. but only premium pump and 110 Sunoco or VP C12 (anything in that range that is ethanol free. Damn I hate the stinkin' government supidity.

Edited by trialskat, 07 September 2011 - 03:38 AM.

[1oldbanjo]

 trialskat, on 07 September 2011 - 03:36 AM, said:

My '93 GasGas JT250 had a prisitne tank all it's life when I was using a 50/50 mix of 110 LEADED purple (Sunoco) or C12 VP LEADED and 93 octane pump gas. used the same stuff in my '74 TY250. No problems for years until about a year and a half ago I made the mistake of switching to Sunoco 100 clear race fuel with same pump gas. Didn't notice it right away but my fuel tank "grew" in all directions until it will no longer sit down on the frame. The new Yamaha OEM fuel cap had to be relieved and greased the threads (silicone grease)to be able to tighten it down. I had a hard time unscrewing it the first time since last year. The cap had swollen so tight I almost had to use pliers but I managed without that.
Funny thing is the original Yamaha cap had actually shrunken until it was a straight drop in and will not thread at all. I obtained a NOS cap and it worked perfect until the ethanol race fuel. Maybe I'll soak it in ethanol/gas to see if it will grow!!!! Say What? NO No I ain't goin' there!

My new Sherco tank grew as a result of the ethanol in the pump gas, and started to fit tight in the frame and push the fender back on the frame as the tank got longer. I was able to reverse the damage by taking the tank off the bike and getting the fuel out....and letting it sit in the sun for a couple of days to air out. I did it at a time when I was not able to ride and probably had the fuel out of the tank for 2-3 weeks total. Since that time I have been very careful to only buy fuel that it ethanol free. Either 96 Shell racing fuel - or 90 Octane fuel that I buy from CountryMark in Indiana.

Edited by 1oldbanjo, 07 September 2011 - 01:05 PM.

[jse]

 trialskat, on 07 September 2011 - 03:36 AM, said:

Ethanol in gasoline is a waste of money but the "Corn Lobbyists" are lining the Senate and Congress pockets to dump it on U.S. (us/we). Ethanol has an affinity for moisture and will draw it into your tank out of the air. Ethanol @10% will cost you 10% to 20% fuel economy loss. Ever seen the metal filler neck all corroded in a car/truck?
My '93 GasGas JT250 had a prisitne tank all it's life when I was using a 50/50 mix of 110 LEADED purple (Sunoco) or C12 VP LEADED and 93 octane pump gas. used the same stuff in my '74 TY250. No problems for years until about a year and a half ago I made the mistake of switching to Sunoco 100 clear race fuel with same pump gas. Didn't notice it right away but my fuel tank "grew" in all directions until it will no longer sit down on the frame. The new Yamaha OEM fuel cap had to be relieved and greased the threads (silicone grease)to be able to tighten it down. I had a hard time unscrewing it the first time since last year. The cap had swollen so tight I almost had to use pliers but I managed without that.
Funny thing is the original Yamaha cap had actually shrunken until it was a straight drop in and will not thread at all. I obtained a NOS cap and it worked perfect until the ethanol race fuel. Maybe I'll soak it in ethanol/gas to see if it will grow!!!! Say What? NO No I ain't goin' there!

Here in Arkansas we do have ethanol free mid and Premium grade gasoline. I have read there is even ethanol free regular 87 octane. I will use that in my car and truck etc. but only premium pump and 110 Sunoco or VP C12 (anything in that range that is ethanol free. Damn I hate the stinkin' government supidity.

Hi Curtis! Jon here.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I've not had research experience with Ethanol, but from personal experience, Methanol race fuel systems require a complete flush before any storage due to corrosion caused by any alcohol left in the system, so I wouldn't be surprized if the Ethanol is causing some component problems.

When I lived in Northern California, we also had a big problem with another oxygenation compound, MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether) that contaminated the lakes and watersheds due to watercraft exhaust. If you were filling your tank and some of the MTBE vapor managed to sneak past all the anti-vapor attachments on the pumps required in California, the stuff would just about knock your socks off. My understanding was that it was used because it was cheaper than Ethanol and it that was true, yet another example of profit before responsibility.

All the stations here in the Midwest proudly display large signs if they carry Ethanol free fuels, so it is apparent that the public has an affinity for avoiding the oxygenated fuels. As such, it puzzles me that the best and brightest minds in the U.S. Chemical Engineering industry can't come up with an emission reducing compound that solves the problems and the public wants.

Jon

[1oldbanjo]

 JSE, on 07 September 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

Hi Curtis! Jon here.

All the stations here in the Midwest proudly display large signs if they carry Ethanol free fuels, so it is apparent that the public has an affinity for avoiding the oxygenated fuels. As such, it puzzles me that the best and brightest minds in the U.S. Chemical Engineering industry can't come up with an emission reducing compound that solves the problems and the public wants.

Jon

My annoyance with ethanol free fuels comes about not for use in my daily driver.....it is fuel injected and goes through a tank of fuel each week and the fuel work just fine except for a 10% reduction in my fuel mileage. My problem comes from trying to use the stuff in older carbeurated engines that were not designed for ethanol.....especially equipment that is only used seasonally. The ethanol fuel dissolves the rubber fuel lines and carb diaphragms, and when not used for a few months the fuel can rust fuel tanks and on 2 cycle engines can allow the oil to seperate from the fuel with horrible results.

My opinion is that the EPA and those associated with trying to clean up the air are not concerned with how your old equipment operates or how the ethanol blended fuel might damage your equipment....they would rather see you stop using your old pre-EPA equipment and buy new more environmentally friendly equipment that includes fixed jet carbs, fuel injection, EGR & PCV valves and catalytic converters. This attitude does penalize the many people that just can't afford new equipment and are using the old tractors that have been on the farms since the 40's and still get the job done well. I have had to work on a lot of the local farm equipment - as my neighbors know that I am a gear head and can fix all their stuff. Most of the work is related to corrosion of the metal parts or the rubber parts being dissolved by the ethanol mixed in with the fuel - and I have been working on small engines for the last 38 years and I can see the difference that has come about since the advent of ethanol blended fuel. In the old days the fuel would go bad and gum up the fuel system if they sat for a year or more and it would require cleaning - now the fuel system components are getting corroded or dissolved a very short period of time.

[bob_m]

I stumbled on 100 Octane Cam2 at an Irving gas station near my house in Rhode Island.

The Sunoco/Cam2 web site has a dealer locator for the US: http://www.sunocoinc...GT100Locations/

I'm happy to pay the $10/gallon to have it always available.

My 1996 Gas Gas 270 runs great on it.

Bob

[motojunky]

 Bob_M, on 16 September 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

I stumbled on 100 Octane Cam2 at an Irving gas station near my house in Rhode Island.

The Sunoco/Cam2 web site has a dealer locator for the US: http://www.sunocoinc...GT100Locations/

I'm happy to pay the $10/gallon to have it always available.

My 1996 Gas Gas 270 runs great on it.

Bob

You linked to Sunoco 260 GT which I assume is also Cam2? Anyway, Sunoco 260 GT DOES contain ethanol.