44 replies to this topic

[Bob_M]

Thanks Motojunky, I should have read the Sunoco brochure I got from the guy at the station more carefully. Sunoco is the Cam 2 manufacturer. I'm glad you caught this but also mad now that I know I am paying a premium for corn juice in my fuel.

I'll check the color next time I refuel just to make sure which version it is they are selling.

I guess I'll be draining my tank from now on.

Bob

[motojunky]

Bob_M, on 21 September 2011 - 05:00 PM, said:

Thanks Motojunky, I should have read the Sunoco brochure I got from the guy at the station more carefully. Sunoco is the Cam 2 manufacturer. I'm glad you caught this but also mad now that I know I am paying a premium for corn juice in my fuel.

I'll check the color next time I refuel just to make sure which version it is they are selling.

I guess I'll be draining my tank from now on.

Bob

Wish I wasn't "helping" with bad news. The whole ethanol issue is very discouraging for me.

VP sells several ethanol free fuels if you can find a dealer near you. I had been using SEF94, but it jumped to $15/gallon last time I purchased. I don't use a whole lot, but that's still painful.

[Bob_M]

I scanned the brochure into a PDF document to post it and show that CAM2 does not even mention any reference to ethanol content but can't see how to insert an attachment. I tried a screen dump but that didn't work either.

Anyway, they don't state any version of CAM2 contains ethanol in the brochure but it is listed on the web site.

I might try sacrificing a small amount to see if I can extract it with water.

Thanks,

Bob

[1oldbanjo]

Bob_M, on 22 September 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

I might try sacrificing a small amount to see if I can extract it with water.

Thanks,Bob

The test is easy....and unfortunately often necessary to be sure. Find a small clear bottle, fill it about 1/3rd up with water and carefully mark the water level. Then fill the rest up with the gasoline to be tested, put on the lid and shake. If there is no ethanol the gasoline will float on top of the water and there will be a very distinct seperation and the water level will be at the mark you made earler. If there is ethanol in the fuel the seperation often is bubbly and rough, and the level of the water will have risen above the mark that was made.

Testing a small amount is the only way to be sure.

[motojunky]

Bob_M, on 22 September 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

I scanned the brochure into a PDF document to post it and show that CAM2 does not even mention any reference to ethanol content but can't see how to insert an attachment. I tried a screen dump but that didn't work either.

Anyway, they don't state any version of CAM2 contains ethanol in the brochure but it is listed on the web site.

I might try sacrificing a small amount to see if I can extract it with water.

Thanks,

Bob

I did a quick Google and found this:

""Cam 2" is the generic name used for Sunoco Race Fuels. You can expect the same consistent high quality performance from Cam 2 Racing Gasoline that you get from Sunoco Race Fuels because the names are interchangeable. It is the same product, made in the same facility by the same people. We use this name wherever the "Sunoco" brand name cannot be used, such as gasoline outlets which carry a competing brand of street gasoline.

Sunoco does make several ethanol-free fuels, so it is possible that the CAM2 you've found is ethanol free. It looks like 260 GTX (98 Octane) is the only unleaded fuel they offer that has no ethanol. If what you found is 100 octane from a pump at a gas station, I'd bet it has ethanol.



When I first started looking into the Ethanol issue, I Googled a phone number for Sunoco and was able to get transferred to the "race fuel guy." He was friendly and knowledgeable. Testing is the most fool-proof method to know for sure, but a phone call might be easier and good enough.

Fun, isn't it?

[chuck4788]

Use this web site to find retailers near you that sell pure gas:
My link

[ringo]

Here are some reviews on the Star Tron additive. I think I'll give it a try.
http://www.jamestown...-Treatment.html

[GII]

1oldbanjo, on 09 February 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

The only way to know for sure of the fuel has ethanol is to test the fuel. You can buy test kits - but any plastic soda bottle will work just fine. I use a 20 oz. soda bottle and I put a piece of tape about 2" up from the bottom. Fill the soda bottle with water to the top of the tape - you want the water level exactly level with the tape. Then fill the bottle with the fuel you want to test, put on the lid and shake for a few seconds. When you set the bottle down the fuel and water will be all frothy then the water will settle down to the bottom. If there is no ethanol in the fuel it will sink to the bottom and the water level will be right at the top of the tape line. If there is ethanol in the fuel the water level will have risen above the tape line - the water absorbs the ethanol out of the fuel and increases in volume.

So, can you strip the ethanol out of the fuel using water?

Just thinking of using a big glass jar like a demi-john, putting some water in, mixing the fuel with it, letting it settle, then siphoning the 'clean' fuel off the top, chuck the rubbish away.

Don't use a gallon a trial so not a lot of effort, but, will it work?

[copemech]

GII, on 12 February 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

So, can you strip the ethanol out of the fuel using water?

Just thinking of using a big glass jar like a demi-john, putting some water in, mixing the fuel with it, letting it settle, then siphoning the 'clean' fuel off the top, chuck the rubbish away.

Don't use a gallon a trial so not a lot of effort, but, will it work?

I am no fuel chemist(i wish we had one here)but thoughts being once the alcohol reaches its saturation point and separates from the gas, it is effectively removed.

I think the problem comes in where the effective octane of the fuel is reduced proportionatly, as the alcohol is a proper anti-knock additive and proportioned to the fuel blend to achieve the stated RON or R+M/2 rating.

Just how much I am unsure, yet ventre a guess of 2-3 points on the RON with a 10% ethanol blend.

[1oldbanjo]

copemech, on 13 February 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

I am no fuel chemist(i wish we had one here)but thoughts being once the alcohol reaches its saturation point and separates from the gas, it is effectively removed.

I think the problem comes in where the effective octane of the fuel is reduced proportionatly, as the alcohol is a proper anti-knock additive and proportioned to the fuel blend to achieve the stated RON or R+M/2 rating.

Just how much I am unsure, yet ventre a guess of 2-3 points on the RON with a 10% ethanol blend.

Not only are you lowering the Octane rating - the resulting fuel will have absorbed water and become saturated with as much water as it can hold in suspension. When the fuel sits in a tank and some it evaporates or the temperature drops - the water in suspension can drop out and become liguid water.

[toothandnail]

I'm not seeing/having ANY problems , here's a pic of a MIXED fuel sample that's been setting in my shop for almost 3 YEARS , bottle WAS full cap is just setting on the top , so any moisture in the air is able to come and go with the heat/cool cycles throughout the years
http://img854.images...19/img7040q.jpg

Don't know why it won't accept the pic , I've tried EVERY option I know of

Edited by toothandnail, 13 February 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[1oldbanjo]

toothandnail, on 13 February 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I'm not seeing/having ANY problems , here's a pic of a MIXED fuel sample that's been setting in my shop for almost 3 YEARS , bottle WAS full cap is just setting on the top , so any moisture in the air is able to come and go with the heat/cool cycles throughout the years
http://img854.images...19/img7040q.jpg

Don't know why it won't accept the pic , I've tried EVERY option I know of

I tried a similar experiment with several different kind of fuels in plastic bottles with a 1/16" hole drilled in the cap for a vent. I had Avgas 100LL, Ethanol fuel, no ethanol fuel, high test and regular, and they all held up well. Somehow the bottle test does not simulate the real world environment very well. In my test the fact that my garage is insulate and heated and the temperature and humidity swings are very small may have been a factor. Throw the bottles in a tin storage shed - and add some aluminum and steel and brass in the bottles to simulate the materials the fuel will come into contact with and it may change things.

I know that in the real world with equipment stored outdoors or in unheated garages - the problems really do show up frequently......and mostly in equipment that is only used periodically. If you run a tank of fuel through every couple of months most of the problems with fuel don't occur.

[lankydoug]

I have the Pure Gas app loaded on my IPhone so it will tell me the closest Pure fuel station and even give me directions. I have used pure pump fuel in lawn equipment but all my bikes get VP110 race fuel. It won't go bad sitting and there is no need to add anything but mix oil. The only thing with leaded race fuel is that if you leave it in the sun the lead will separate out of the fuel. I have switched back and forth from pure pump fuel and also mixed pump fuel with race fuel and never had to re-jet but for me all the mixing and trying to keep track of which fuel jug had which mix in it was more of a pain than it was worth. My advise is to unclinch your butt cheeks and part with the $8 per gallon and be done with the worries.

[motojunky]

lankydoug, on 24 March 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

I have the Pure Gas app loaded on my IPhone so it will tell me the closest Pure fuel station and even give me directions. I have used pure pump fuel in lawn equipment but all my bikes get VP110 race fuel. It won't go bad sitting and there is no need to add anything but mix oil. The only thing with leaded race fuel is that if you leave it in the sun the lead will separate out of the fuel. I have switched back and forth from pure pump fuel and also mixed pump fuel with race fuel and never had to re-jet but for me all the mixing and trying to keep track of which fuel jug had which mix in it was more of a pain than it was worth. My advise is to unclinch your butt cheeks and part with the $8 per gallon and be done with the worries.

Where are you finding VP for $8/gallon? I was at my local VP distributor today and SEF94 was just under $16/gallon. C9 (96 octane, unleaded, ethanol free) was $12.22/gallon. I did not ask about VP110 as I don't need the octane or lead but I'd be shocked if it was that much cheaper.

[lankydoug]

motojunky, on 28 March 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

Where are you finding VP for $8/gallon? I was at my local VP distributor today and SEF94 was just under $16/gallon. C9 (96 octane, unleaded, ethanol free) was $12.22/gallon. I did not ask about VP110 as I don't need the octane or lead but I'd be shocked if it was that much cheaper.

A local machine shop in Rolla MO buys VP110 in bulk and sells it for $8 per gal. When I lived in north east OK a NAPA auto parts store sold Sunoco 110 in sealed 5 gallon containers for $45 each. It sounds like you are getting gouged at those prices.