28 replies to this topic

[jimmyl]

B****r - Never spotted the no-stop line and I was quiet early. Line in video was very hard to clean no stop but Dan was very good for his clean.

[totalshell]

well that looked like a fairly clear five. boh feet on the ground bike stopped and lifting the front end round did it even roll back a smidge?

[Timp]

These videos clearly show why "stop for a 1" was the fairest rule. In most of these cases the rider would of been happy with a "1" for stopping but not happy with a "5" for a debatable stop.
I wouldn't of fived any in these videos if I was observing. Most observers I know allow a slight hesitation but give a five after a count of say 1 second for example, some tighter, some easier.
I ride mainly no-stop trials through choice and one of the main reasons is shown in Alex Wiggs video!!!! He's only using the rules to his advantage but doesn't it look boring.

On another note if you were at the Colmore you will no how big and slippy the sections were.
It's amazing how a video camera can flatten a section!!!!

[Pete_Scorpa3]

I've got many of these, there were two of us filming, I've tried to pick them at random.
I mean no criticism of the rider or the officials, it's simply a video of what happened. Here's just one more for you to take a look at. Section eight, a very steep cambered approach to an awful looking root step.

[jimmyl]

I'm no good at hopping so would of had a safe dab where Mark gets into difficulty. But he's good enough to stop hop and balance and in reality should of had a five, especially as he was in difficulty but takes a brave observer to give him one. Maybe as addict said earlier fundamentally down to C of C to make sections not need to stop - if the rider does stop then easier to give a five. Trouble is with ability of riders its very hard to take marks off the top lads without killing even the good boys.

[totalshell]

i cant see the issue. if the bike stops moving forward its a five the more we accept that stopping for a second or a count of one or alowing a hop to the left or right the more advantage will be taken by riders if every observer applied the same rules rather than making up there own there would be no issues, all the sections could be ridden literally non stop if they had to be by the better riders.

[B40RT]

totalshell, on 01 March 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

i cant see the issue. if the bike stops moving forward its a five the more we accept that stopping for a second or a count of one or alowing a hop to the left or right the more advantage will be taken by riders if every observer applied the same rules rather than making up there own there would be no issues, all the sections could be ridden literally non stop if they had to be by the better riders.

Spot on.

[spudsdad]

i thought the idea of going back to no stop rules was to make the sections easier, but with riders still stopping and hopping to gain position in the sections maybe they are too hard.
if the observers were to mark more strictly the sections could be made slightly easier.
its the same with stop permitted trials where rolling back whilst hopping tends to go unpenalised.

[Triple_X]

When I was riding back in the 60's and 70's we got a five if forward motion stopped. Simple.

Surely the physics havn't changed you are quite simply stopped or moving, what is there to understand!

On Sunday I rode in a very good, well laid out event, about 60 riders split into 3 groups going to 3 starting places (section).

All well and good, until that is we ended up queing behind the bunny hoppers.

Boring for the obervers, boring for those waiting who just wanted to get on with it!

Martin

[Neale]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but apart from these videos showing that the bike hav indeed ceased forward motion and should have been classed as a five in my book....but do you think that it all depends on where the observer is standing or sitting at the time ? . Many times I have seen the observer move from one stationary point to another throughout a trial and so this can affect what they can actually see. If they were directly behind the bike and rider when the front wheel had stopped it would be hard to see.
I too have observed many times and I do know that boredom or cramp or cold can make you want to walk about while observing but its just a thought !

[jordi]

Neale, on 03 March 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

I too have observed many times and I do know that boredom or cramp or cold can make you want to walk about while observing but its just a thought !

And yes, it was cold on the day. So as far as I am concerned all the 80 observers were heroes.

[Pete_Scorpa3]

Alan Wright was the Clerk of the Course he said and I quote:

"The observing method today is "Non Stop". Put simply, the front wheel spindle must move in a forwards direction at all times. If it does not it's a five. Don't be generous. Don't be overzealous. If you are in doubt give the rider the benefit of the doubt. Consistency is vital.
If the machine stops moving forwards it's simple - 5 marks lost."

With the need for 40 observers and 40 punchers, we simply can't be more forceful than that or we risk not getting enough helpers. Everyone has their own idea of what constitutes a stop, so providing an observer treats everyone the same, then there's not an awful lot more to be done.

With the benefit of sitting in our warm dry homes being able to watch the same video clip over and over again, it is easy to spot mistakes. It's very much like football commentators saying a pass was off-side when they watch a replay on tv. These things happen, it doesn't make it right but it's the best we have and to be fair, it's pretty good most of the time.

[jimmyl]

The observers, punchers, assistants, C of C and anybody else who helped should be thanked and classed as heroes. Everybody who is having a dig at the rules seems to be bystanders. Its very easy to be critical in hindsight but as a rider it is nice to get the benefit of the doubt for a momentary stop which with modern brakes, tyres, suspension etc its very easy to stop for a split second.
Riders and observers don't want to be arguing about a momentary stop, let the spirit be adopted with a bit of leniency and you have a cracking trial like all the Normadales last year and he few Novogar/S3's I have ridden.
Organisers/assistants/observers/helpers - carry on as Sunday please

[Triple_X]

Very interesting topic and observations (sorry).

Perhaps the easiest way is to ban hopping the bike to get a better position.

Then as A W advises forward motion will be maintained.

There are no half measures if the bike is not going forward it is either stopped, on it's side or going backwards.

Martin

Edited by Triple_X, 04 March 2011 - 09:06 AM.