34 replies to this topic

[Outlaw Dave]

For those people not familiar with what is happening in Canada -sometimes referred to as "The Great White North"
this past couple of years has seen a new organizing body emerge, called the WEC - this stands for World Enduro Canada, and it was formed as an alternative to the CMA or Canadian Motorcycle association. - Almost out of the box - the new group were outstandingly successful, the Enduro riders loved the enthusiasm and expertise of the WEC, who scheduled a true National Series across this great Country. It should be noted that the guys who head up the WEC are Out and Out enthusiasts, they do however have business savvy, and a big Ace in the hole, with a link to a large Insurance company that covers all the problems associated with hosting an event.
The next step was to involve the Trials riders, and this was accomplished in 2009, with a National Series, that was repeated in 2010.
- the success of the National series was noticed by the MCC ( Motorcycle Industry Council) who have now donated funds to the renamed World Trials Canada to promote the sport. - Although the WEC/WTC are not as yet affiliated with the FIM. - It would appear that this is only a matter of time, as enthusiasts tend to vote with their dollars.

[Outlaw Dave]

Forgot to post one of the real "Plums" for Trials riders with WTC is that we get "FREE" insurance, which is covered under the Enduro policy.

[TooFastTim]

Outlaw Dave, on 02 April 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

Forgot to post one of the real "Plums" for Trials riders with WTC is that we get "FREE" insurance, which is covered under the Enduro policy.

How did you swing that Dave? Do the enduro riders subsidise the trials guys?

Edited by TooFastTim, 02 April 2011 - 10:49 AM.

[Outlaw Dave]

Yes

[borus]

Ok, you brought it up, how about some answers.

Right now you are for profit promoters.

However...let's hear you out on this public stage.

Here are some functions of a sanctioning body - how will the following be administered if you ever become a true sanctioning body?

The reason I ask is the WEC has been using that promise since 2008. We're waiting to see more than just promises.

Please layout how the WEC plans to manage each for the bullets below which requires full time work involved in being a credible sanctioning organization.

FIM Affiliation - We've heard that the MCC / WEC will affiliate with the FIM since 2008 - what is the time table, give us details?
Provincial Championships
National Championships
Rules – organize yearly rule submissions from members – then maintain rule book,
Sport Code – Maintain sport code book
TDN – selection process of manager, approve team members, manage funds, liaise with FIM
Liaise with AMA
FIM North America co-ordination
Event Results and Point Standings
Club Affiliation Processing
Maintenance of data files
Membership processing - biggy, who will administer, is this free, who will fund?
Mailings
French Services
Competition License processing
International License and Release processing
Maintenance of rider classification files
Awards
Strategic Planning

As the current Canadian TDN Manager I have contact with the CMA at least 2-3 time per week just dealing with TDN issues. Everything is dealt with promptly and professionally. This has allowed me to hopefully do my volunteer job correctly and on time. Without full time staff I can't see this happening.

How will this all be paid for.

Is the free insurance and free (sanctioning?) promoted by the WEC going to continue or is there going to be fees in the future for trial riders? As i understand it, Enduro etc riders have to license with the MCC now. Would this ever come to trials or will their free ride continue? I'm sure the Enduro riders would like a free ride too. (In my world nothing is for free)

How much does the WEC Enduro riders pay to to license with the WEC or is that free too.
Is the WEC a for profit or non-profit company? Where are their financial statements? Other non-profit sanctioning bodies have to produce financial statements to members. Do you have members?

Even in the Enduro community in Ontario where the WEC is based out of there are other very credible Enduro series not affiliated with the WEC. Has the WEC ever communicated to these series that it will run against them on the same weekend as a strong arm tactic?

Answers to these questions and much more are required. The WEC has pitched their case in the past only to be turned down by the largest clubs in Canada. You need to have a better business plan to move forward because we need much more than grandstanding on the forums and web sites.

Few more questions. What is your succession plan. Who or how are WEC / WTC members replaced as they leave. Who selects them? Does the WEC have a board of governors for over-site? Who does the checks and balances?

By all means do the work and we'll take a serious look at it. In the mean time we've heard this pitch before and we need answers.

Sincerely
Bob Billyard

[Steve Fracy]

The WTC is NOT a for profit promoter, despite THAT pitch you have used since we started out! Right now, Outlaw Dave is a private promoter for his National as there is no club in his area. The ATAQ is Quebec who is putting on the other Nationals this year are a former CMA club who have made the switch!

The reality is here, that trials is one of the only sports left in Canada that falls under the CMA. Perhaps if you looked at the big picture and the numbers it would be clearer to you that it is inevitable that the WTC will become affiliated with the FIM. Currently, roadracing, motocross, enduro all enjoy excellent success with professionally run series that have flourished since leaving CMA. Trials is now on its way too! Again this year we are offering a 4 event series that spans both sides of the country. Not one weekend event! We have private sponsors on board this year to offer special cash awards for Champ riders with the low loop scores at each National. We have the support of riders (good numbers for events), we now have the support of the motorycycle industry of Canada (MCC) who have awarded the WTC with some great funding, and most of all, we have some great people involved all the way through. These are longtime motorcycle people, who have proven records and the experience in local, National, and Worldwide competition and organizing!

It all looks positive, and we will continue to keep working hard on making trials grow in Canada. Besides, I read on another thread that you said we should just be positive, instead of running people down! Have a great day!

[Outlaw Dave]

Hey Bob - You wave your flag and I'll wave mine - I didn't post this to open a debate with you or anybody else.- It's just some news that a lot of people might not be aware of. The facts are that the WEC have been extremely successful, as have the National Trials events, although we did not get too many riders from Eastern Canada in 2009 and 2010. You like to post on behalf of the CMA and that is fine. Please do not try to knock another group who see the Canadian scene different to yourself. Have a nice day.

[borus]

Outlaw Dave, on 02 April 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

Hey Bob - You wave your flag and I'll wave mine - I didn't post this to open a debate with you or anybody else.- It's just some news that a lot of people might not be aware of. The facts are that the WEC have been extremely successful, as have the National Trials events, although we did not get too many riders from Eastern Canada in 2009 and 2010. You like to post on behalf of the CMA and that is fine. Please do not try to knock another group who see the Canadian scene different to yourself. Have a nice day.

Dave and Steve - talk to the largest clubs and maybe they have questions too for your venture. Matter of fact i know you have done this and you have been turned down. Who's knocking anything or running anybody down, just answers the questions, until then it's all fluff? You may view my questions as knocking you but when you don't have the answers I can understand your backlash. If you want backing from anyone, including me, then just show us you can do the job. Then we can decide what the right course is. Right now I'm waiting on results and answers. I've seen neither. You've had the same response every year that you have been asked questions. You get defensive. I spent many hours hours grilling the CMA on their operation, never a defensive word, only received professional fowardlooking answers. HMMM

I'll always remain open to consider new concepts, but don't take me for a fool on free candy.

[Steve Fracy]

All information about the WTC is available through contacting either Dave or myself, or emailing through the website.

2011 WTC National Schedule


May 21/22 Summerland BC

July 16/17 Morin Heights, PQ

[borus]

Steve Fracy, on 02 April 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

All information about the WTC is available through contacting either Dave or myself, or emailing through the website.

2011 WTC National Schedule


May 21/22 Summerland BC

July 16/17 Morin Heights, PQ

Now were getting somewhere, should I copy and paste the questions into an e-mail or can you do that? Please send to me directly and I will discuss with my club exec's. How much more of an invite can you get. If you want to run to show then let's see what you got?

[the observer]

borus, on 02 April 2011 - 02:11 PM, said:

French Services

Sincerely
Bob Billyard

Dude, I want to join your club if you offer "French Services"

Edited by the observer, 02 April 2011 - 04:05 PM.

[TrialsCanada]

If you go to the WTC website (wectrials.ca), you'll see that all services are provided in French. Also, the WTC Trials Rule book is currently being translated by members of the Association des Trialises Amatuers du Quebec.

I'll deal with one or two more of the points of this thread while I'm typing:

As I'm sure everyone is aware, FIM affiliation (which would mean the de-affiliation of the CMA) is not a decision that's made by WTC, but by the FIM itself. This is largely a political process, so it does not happen overnight - it will take a while, but it appears to be quite a possibility in the long-term.

There is only one provincial CMA trials championship, that is in Ontario. Quebec, Alberta and British Columbia all have WTC provincial championships. Apart from a small hand-full of people in Calgary who run a couple of trials each year, Ontario is the only place of any significance in Canada where any CMA-sanctioned trials take place.

TDN team selection and management responsibilities go automatically to the FIM-affiliated sanctioning body. which is currently the CMA. If (or when) this changes, then the WTC will take over those responsibilities. The fact is, these international team contests are not what they used to be. Look at the way that the importance of events like the Moto-X des Nations has fallen off over the years.

Event results and point standings are carried on the WTC website (www.wectrials.ca)

I'm not knocking the CMA, which has been a great organization over the years. But right now the WTC does appear to be doing a great job for a much lower cost. The WTC has also managed to run a proper, country-wide, national championship ever since it started. This is something which the CMA, for one reason or another, had failed to accomplish for quite a span of years.

These are just a few observations. Personally, I'll continue to report on ALL Canadian trials stories, regardless of which body does the sanctioning.

Bob J

Edited by TrialsCanada, 02 April 2011 - 10:19 PM.

[the observer]

I guess "French Services" has a different meaning where I live.

[borus]

the observer, on 03 April 2011 - 12:48 AM, said:

I guess "French Services" has a different meaning where I live.

i think you got it right,

[copemech]

One thing for sure, things go smoother working together, rather than apart.