15 replies to this topic

[zaccyboy]

Any advice on controlling bike down steepish narrow slopes and banks? I seem to flap abit when atemping these and usually make a complete clown of myself and slide off, which brake to use and body position would be a help to start I guess, also bar and lever position( beta rev 3)would help too.

CHEERS GUYS

[copemech]

zaccyboy, on 05 June 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

Any advice on controlling bike down steepish narrow slopes and banks? I seem to flap abit when atemping these and usually make a complete clown of myself and slide off, which brake to use and body position would be a help to start I guess, also bar and lever position( beta rev 3)would help too.

CHEERS GUYS

Your bars should always be verticle or forrard of that, levers level os slightly down so you can reach them in the downhill, as YOU need to be alll the way back with straight arms, and butt as far back on rear mudguarg as you can get!

Braking is 90%front, use engine braking on rear as much as possible, as the rear is light and even a toutsh of brake will stop the wheel, then you jus slide without a rudder!

Stop at top, control speed and do not let momentum build if you can prevent it. Mind, you gotts release front over slippry roots, as the things will put you on your head if the front goes sideways!

[Spenser]

If I understand you correctly, you are not going straight down, but across and down the bank. If that is indead the case, besides what Copemec has suggested, keep peg weight on the uphill side so as to put as much tire tread on the ground as possible. It feels a bit strange at first leaning the bike out, but it works well.

Spencer

[charliechitlins]

Spenser, on 06 June 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

, keep peg weight on the uphill side so as to put as much tire tread on the ground as possible.

You sure about that?

[HAM2]

?? It only works for me if I load the outside (downside) peg?

Yours Sincerely,
Confused, of Tyneside ?

[copemech]

HAM2, on 09 June 2011 - 12:11 PM, said:

?? It only works for me if I load the outside (downside) peg?

Yours Sincerely,
Confused, of Tyneside ?

Ryan says that is all BS, steer with the pegs!

[40BelowBiker]

I've been riding most of my life, but have only been riding trials a few years, so the learning is still fresh. On downhills (and basically everywhere) you should have all of your weight on the pegs, so you could almost let go of the bars if you had to. I found this very difficult to do and began using it uphill first and saw that it worked well, and tried on downhill, and it also works well. You have to get way back over the rear fender to center your weight on the pegs, so levers almost level and sit back as these folks have already mentioned.

For any of the techniques I try I find it easier to learn them in a simple setting, and then gradually upgrade - so - practice you steep downhill technique on very tame downhills first until the feeling becomes natural, and then step it up. This way you can build your skill instead of needing it right away. I did the same for balancing. It's pretty hard to practice balancing if you can only sit still for a few seconds, not much time to train the brain. I started balancing in snow, mud or sand, in places where the bike would almost stand up by itself. In this situation you have lots of time to get the feel of what's going on since you're not falling over, and you have time to see what works and what doesn't. Once you master balancing in deep stuff, move to less and less deep and before you know it you can do it almost anywhere.

I think this applies to most techniques, and certainly to uphill and downhill. On uphills I was riding with a great instructor who would take one hand off the bars to show that all weight was on the pegs, and only a light touch on the bar to steer. It was hard to get used to but once you realize that it works, it sticks. Doing this on steep downhills was very hard for me to learn, but I started gradually and now I am much better and have a very light hold of the bars. You have to be good with the front brake, and if you're not, don't practice on steep hills, practice in level ground. Lock the front wheel and let it go to get the feel of it. Squeeze progressively to the point of almost locking up until it's a familiar feeling. I'm an ex roadracer so I have lots of miles on the front brake. The only time I used my rear was when I was off the track and heading for the rhubarb. In fact, I used to pry my rear pads away from the disc for less drag.

Sit back so there's no weight on the handgrips, use the front brake mainly, but keep your foot poised over the rear brake in case you have to ease up on the front for a second as someone mentioned, dragging the rear is better than none at all, and then get back on the front as soon as possible. Even if the front starts to slide from braking, it recovers very well when you ease up, so you don't have to let it go completely. I keep mine almost to the point of sliding when it's very steep, and constantly adjust the lever pressure. When it stops sliding I squeeze a bit more to get rid of as much speed as possible when the traction's there, and hopefully there are enough spots like that to compensate for the speed you build on the slippery stuff.

With your weight back you can brake harder with the front without feeling like you're going to flip, and with less weight on the front, the tire will go where you want more than where the terrain knocks it.

Try all peg weight on uphills also, and test yourself by seeing if you can open your grip on the bars to prove you're not hanging on. Once you master this the front will feel very light and agile like it's not affecting much at all, almost the way a wheelie feels more controllable in some cases rather than with the front on the ground.

I'm still learning myself, and I hope I'm not giving bad advice, but this is what works for me.

Cheers

40

Edited by 40BelowBiker, 16 June 2011 - 12:14 AM.

[copemech]

Good write-up 40!

I think one thing I might add would be still yet a constant vigil on the bars, with arms mostly straight to back them up, as there are some odd transitions at the bottoms many times that will literally yank the bars out your hands and tuck under due to the downhill induceed negative rake angle of the fork in that downhill attitude.

Once again, quickly puts you on your head!

[Spenser]

HAM2, on 09 June 2011 - 12:11 PM, said:

?? It only works for me if I load the outside (downside) peg?

Yours Sincerely,
Confused, of Tyneside ?

This concept sometimes gets lost in the translation; when I say that I weight the uphill peg when crossing a slope, the bike leans out from the hill with the weight on the uphill peg balancing the weight of the bike leaning away from the slope, giving more tread in contact with the ground.

Spencer

[charliechitlins]

Spenser, on 28 June 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

This concept sometimes gets lost in the translation; when I say that I weight the uphill peg when crossing a slope, the bike leans out from the hill with the weight on the uphill peg balancing the weight of the bike leaning away from the slope, giving more tread in contact with the ground.

Spencer

You sure about that?

[Spenser]

charliechitlins, on 28 June 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

You sure about that?

Every time that you write that I second guess myself! I am sure about it, but will confirm and write back.

Spencer

[charliechitlins]

I lent out my copy of "The Bernie Book"...and my trials skills are really rusty, but....
I'm pretty sure the way to ride across a slope is to weight the downhill peg (furthest from the ground) and lean the bike a bit into the hill.
It seems counter-intuitive, as your idea of getting the tread down makes sense, but I don't think it works that way.
But I, like you, am going to have to actually get on the bike to be sure.

[0007]

I think it goes like this
You treat a sidehill like a low speed corner
You lean the bike into the corner so that you use less steering input, same with a hill, you lean into the hill
There must be more tire contact with the ground when you do this as well, the bike seems to settle and let you keep the handlebar more straight

[gser]

I had an interesting training session on steep down hills, where the riders weight was over the bars, not enough to get the back wheel airborne, but enough to push the front tyre into the ground, giving better control and steering on the decent.

I cant see loading the inside peg working on cross cambers, surely that would have the effect of pushing the tyres down the slope, not into the hill as it would if you loaded the outside peg.

[Rosey]

Schreiber book is a very good one.

The best thing to do is experiment... front brake does most of the work, but the balance of both braking and body weight shifts with traction available. Its all about feel.

I always decended on serious technical/slippy downhills with the clutch lever up to the bars (no engine braking). You need to realise that you may have to engage the clutch and use the throttle to pick the front up if there is a proper lack of ground below you at some point though!

Levers need to be closer to being horizontal (when the bike is on the flat!) rather than down too much. Down too much and it stops you from being able to get your weight back.

When you get the feel right is when you can start (intentionally) going down hills on the front wheel alone (back in the air).. OK that may be advanced, but thats when you are really getting weight position and brake feel correct.

Sorry if the above is confusing... I'll shut up now