49 replies to this topic

[Old trials fanatic]

Well got the TLR 200 home and it's not too bad definately a good basis to build from however. Yes theres always a however isnt there? Firstly thanks for the advice re sprockets theyre now on order but the engine feels gutless. What can i do to give it some oomph at a reasonable price ? I'm going to fit some better footrests and move the mountings this weekend and was wondering what i could do to improve power. Shouldnt be too hard as it's got very little by the feel of it. Also the forks feel way way too soft. Are there any better springs i can fit ? Rear shocks will probably need replaceing at some point any ideas what length ? i understand 390mm is std but is it worth fitting longer ones ?

What has worked for you?

[Woody]

A couple of our local lads each have a TLR200. Both standard engines, just altered gearing.

Having ridden them both, they have enough power to pull me around the sort of sections found in today's classic club trials and Miller rounds. No problem at all, no mods needed. One had a WES system I think, the other had the exhaust cut short wiith a twin outlet in front of the shock. Not really sure what, if any difference either made over the standard exhaust.

The 200 engine felt smoother than the 250, less harsh and they seem to find grip better in mud.

If yours feels gutless, maybe it is down on power for some reason as a 200 should pull you around easily and unless you're going to be attacking some big hillclimbs or steps, there shouldn't be any need for more power.

Jap forks I've always found to be undersprung and damped, but the springs are also 30 years old now as well. Not sure what is available but BVM can get you some WES progressive 35mm springs (assuming the Honda is 35mm) but these are the same diameter as Fantic, Ossa, Bultaco etc. Not sure if the Honda forks take smaller diameter springs.

Can't suggest anything for rear shocks, no experience. I felt that the standard bike's steering felt fine though, so not sure I would bother with longer shocks myself.

[keychange]

Old trials fanatic, on 06 July 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

the engine feels gutless.

Compared to what? If you are comparing to a 250 two stroke then yes it is. I am around 80kgs and my TLR has no problems when fitted with correct gearing - but I think the original engine is only around 13 horsepower so we have to be realistic.

Have you checked compression?

[4stroke]

A lot of TLR's suffer from saggy back ends due to old, soft Showa units. This reduces rear suspension travel available and ground clearance plus does not help the 'lazy' steering head angle. Move the bottom mounts foreward on the swinging arm and fit shorter, lighter units.
Have you tried increasing the air pressure in the front forks.
The standard bike is heavy so weight can be saved by swapping lots of steel bits with alloy, tank, exhaust, shocks, spacers etc.
I don't agree with moving the footrests back as the front end is light enough, just down.

Edited by 4stroke, 07 July 2011 - 08:26 AM.

[keychange]

Old trials fanatic, on 06 July 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

Rear shocks will probably need replaceing at some point any ideas what length ?

I don't compete so my opinion doesn't carry much weight but I put NJB Expert Trials on and there isn't much more room to add once these were fitted - I didn't check the measurement just told Norman at NJB what it was for and how much I weighed.

I have had them for about 4 months and I think these shocks are great for the riding that I do (lots of hills and greasy wet stuff) and I really noticed an improvement in rear end traction.

As for forks I like mine soft - run a light oil and play around with the air - 1 psi makes quite a difference

[Esteve]

REAR SHOCKS: Standard TLR200 units are 15 1/4" between centres. TLR250 are 15 3/4" (400mm) between centres. I fitted 400mm RockShocks to my TLR200 to help quicken the steering a bit (every little helps, as the front end has not been modified) BUT, check that the bracket for the chain tensioner on the TLR200 doesn't foul the frame with the longer shock fitted. I was warned about this and did a check with the bike on a workshop stand before ordering and 400mm units still leave some clearance on my bike (the chain tensioner bracket on the TLR250 s/a projects less than the TLR200's).

POWER: No complaints, but mine had been serviced and MOT'd just before I acquired it so i never had to work through the usual suspects of clogged airfilter, collapsed exhaust internals etc.

[bobtlr]

Hey,

i have been riding a tlr 200 for 2 years (3 years on a 250 now) i fitted falcon 400mm rear shocks
use the standard exhaust if its a tlr not it its a reflex (white tank and steel wheels)i've tried the wes exhaust on a 200 and on a 250 and find it noisier and the bike did not perform better.
i used 9t front sprocket en 44t rear and found the 200 easy and soft to ride and maybe a bit underpowered.
changes to the airbox and carb can be made and then you could use a bigger exhaust.
make sure the air filter is clean its already very restrictive so when dirty the bike has not enough air (look for black smoke)
i changed my airfilter box by cutting a hole in the top the size of a montesa 4rt airfilter and putting that in the hole with a 4 rt airfilter holder
i did seal the side so it doesn't take in air from the side lid. by doing this the bike gets more air so needs a bigger main jet (needs a bit of searching to get it right)

best regards bob

[Andy M]

Pretty much as others have said here. If you are comparing to a 250 2t then it may feel under powered. They are not every ones cup of tea, my only gripe has been the occasional spitting carb usually in the mid section which can lead to a stall. There are various ideas how to eliminate it but I haven't bothered as I haven't used mine lately. Elsewhere on the web a lot has been done to a Tlr inc atc head and different cdi set up but I think the person who was riding that one is now on a Fantic.

What is the history with yours, if it has been stood they usually need valve seals and rings. Have you seen Jenny Morgans in the other thread, she's made a nice job with the advantage of a disc brake ( I know that will go down well with a few up your way..... )

[twinshocknut]

i got my tlr direct from a importer down here it's a 1983 & it had done 1300 miles, got it home and got to work stripping it and putting it into trials trim.
ive left my forks standered as per honda manual with ATF in them and find them ok on every thing from roots to good old dartmoor bolders & streams, i put 400mm betor shocks on the back with 50lbs springs but found them to hard so gone back to 40lbs springs, droped the footrests down & back 1 inch, fitted a s/steel cherry bomb front pipe with a seely copy rear exhaust which is a straight through system (sounds a bit like a 4rt ).
oh another thing is to take out the bit in the top of the air box with the holes in it (if still fitted) this will increase air flow.
here's a pic from a few months ago with only the footrests & shocks to do

[Andy M]

twinshocknut do you ever get the carb spit with the cherry bomb front pipe and/or seeley box?? I read the c/b front pipe was to help stop it?? but don't know if it does ??

[twinshocknut]

bo drinker, on 07 July 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

twinshocknut do you ever get the carb spit with the cherry bomb front pipe and/or seeley box?? I read the c/b front pipe was to help stop it?? but don't know if it does ??

i would say 98% cured it will sometimes have 1/2 a cough when in 2nd and is on the point of stalling and you open the throttle a bit quick but ive never had it stop, i have richened it up a bit on the air screw which seems to help.

[Old trials fanatic]

bobtlr, on 07 July 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

Hey,

i have been riding a tlr 200 for 2 years (3 years on a 250 now) i fitted falcon 400mm rear shocks
use the standard exhaust if its a tlr not it its a reflex (white tank and steel wheels)i've tried the wes exhaust on a 200 and on a 250 and find it noisier and the bike did not perform better.
i used 9t front sprocket en 44t rear and found the 200 easy and soft to ride and maybe a bit underpowered.
changes to the airbox and carb can be made and then you could use a bigger exhaust.
make sure the air filter is clean its already very restrictive so when dirty the bike has not enough air (look for black smoke)
i changed my airfilter box by cutting a hole in the top the size of a montesa 4rt airfilter and putting that in the hole with a 4 rt airfilter holder
i did seal the side so it doesn't take in air from the side lid. by doing this the bike gets more air so needs a bigger main jet (needs a bit of searching to get it right)

best regards bob

Thanks for all the advice everybody. Sadly my bike is the reflex model ok now i know a lot more about TLR's and i now know it's not the most desireable model. Oh well live and learn.

So if the std exhaust on the tlr is ok but not the reflex model and the wes is not much cop which exhaust should i use? seen DEP but looks like a two stroke end can to me. Is the DEP any good? If not what is there left?

I've modified the airbox for better flow, fitted a 9 tooth gearbox sprocket, moved the footrests and fitted wider alloy ones and fitted a TLR seat and side panels from SM. What else apart from the obviously useless exhaust should i look at? I know the forks are going to be problematic but might be a bit too expensive to sort. The rims are good at the mo so wont be replaceing them just yet but will keep it in mind.

[4stroke]

I use a WES with the short backbox and it works great!

[bobtlr]

hey,

what carb is on the bike? i'm not sure if its the same like on the tlr
let me know what jets are in the bike and what make and size it is please
the tlr comes with a 22mm keihin carb: 660C
main jet 98
pilot jet 40
float level 24 mm
check if the floaters are not filled with fuel

does the bike ref freely?
try cleaning the fuel filter
check if the green cable under the saddle is well connected to the frame (common foult on a tlr 200)

hope you can fiend something to help you

best regards bob

[mcman56]

I don't know if the Reflex is the same but a 24mm carb adds top end without losing any bottom. It is just a taller oval and the 22 mm can be machined to 24. Advancing the cam timing 6 degrees added power at the bottom end and took some off the top. (Parts Unlimited sells an adjustable cam sprocket for the ATC200 that fits.)

I have also ridden a Reflex with a custom Hanson Racing Technology pipe and muffler. It added quite a bit of power everywhere but was louder. Basically, it was a smaller pipe diameter with a much longer length. One person in our club rides a Reflex with a motor built by Hanson and it is much stronger than stock. I believe it has several head modifications such as altered valve size, port size and combustion chamber.