charlie prescott Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Hi Guys. No prob OTF, Happy new year Mate. Broony I bet you love that bike to bits. If we did not have this Pre 65 Scottish thing, It would be interesting to see what frames etc would get conjured up around a period British Unit bike engine BSA etc, but then at the end of the day it would probably look like a Mick Mills frame with a slightly lower seat , and could be different back suspension???? But you probably would not get a better ride than the original MM frame? And that bike had a large seat has standard. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Hi, Charlie, et al., One factor about 'the Pre 65 Scottish thing', as you call it is that when it first started, way back in the 1980s, the Edinboro' organising club believed there would be nobody with an old bike that was registered, insured and road legal - so it was based on the schoolyard at Kinlochleven, and run on what was really a pocket handkerchief course, keeping well off the roads. They attracted entries of between fifty and eighty riders. I campaigned long, hard and boringly trying to persuade them to take the Pre 65 back on the roads and use some of the old favourite sections like 'Coal-scuttle'. They argued back - no road legal bikes. At the time I was well into running my 'British Bike Championship' series of trials, ten trials per annum, all on the road, all based on famous old sections and routes - and attrating no less than four hundred and seventy-two riders to the series. The penny dropped in Edinboro' - they took the Pre 65 out on the road, and were amazed by a potential entry of over two hundred riders. Sadly part of the road use in Scottish trials is the authorisation by the RAC - which limited them to 120 riders. Now here's the rub. There are still as many potential riders, but still the limit of 120 - but why not split the trial in two halves, an experts day on the Friday with 120 experts and a clubman's day on the Saturday, with 120 different riders. No need to do any extra route marking, leave the sections the same, no need for extra marshals or observers - but then two hundred and forty riders of classic machinery could get a chance to ride those famous rocks and burns - just a thought for the future development of a growing sport......... Regards. Deryk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Bit early for April fools ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Hi Deryk, I travel a relatively short distance (2-5 hrs) to the Pre 65, so whether it was one or two days I would still ride. But, in my opinion, the riders from mainland Europe, as well as our southern friends, contribute dramatically to the fantastic atmosphere. My concern would be whether they would continue to support a one day event. If you are looking for a new challenge, how about organising a 2 day twin shock trial. Ross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Hi Ross, I understand your concern, but like so many Scots, I believe you fail to understand just how attractive the thoughts of riding amongst real mountains and proving yourself on sections that have been used for many years by ALL the famous names is when you live in most of England - where, don't forget, there isn't a single Munro to be found anywhere. Yes, only coming for one day of riding might be a limitation, but in my experience most of them stay on for the modern SSDT anyway - indeed many bring bikes for both events. I also helped resuscitate the Arbuthnot Trial, an event that had been 'lost' to the calendar after the 1929 event. That was only one day, moreover it was only for rigid machines, yet it was always oversubscribed - and we had entrants from as far away as Scotland and South Africa. Anyway - let's see if anyone else has any thoughts. regards Deryk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broony Posted December 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) Charlie,love riding the bike makes me smile everytime I'm out on it.I'm not the greatest trials rider in the world(left it a bit late to start) enjoy what sections I clean.Love the noise.Had a modern bike when first got into trials (Scorpa SY250) couldn't do the bike justice.The great thing about the Ceefer it has character and its called "ALF". cheers the noo Brian Edited December 27, 2013 by broony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Might be a bit drastic to have the whole entry on one day, but there will be some of the more senior (or injured) riders that may prefer only doing one day. Even if it was only 10 or 20 places it would mean that many fewer dissapointed riders. Ok the route is different each day, but for most that might elect to ride only one day, it is the taking part that counts and I am fairly sure most would happily accept been grouped into a "one day" result category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 Hi Guys, Totally agree Alan. I even may be able to ride for one day. And I would struggle but love it!!! But there is No way that I could do two days. I have the consolation of trying to encourage some of my younger relatives to get good enough to compete in the trial, and would even abide with the unpredictable and unfair bike construction rules at a pinch. One thing has you say it would encourage more into competing in the trial!!!! And keep the old Classic Stars riding in the event??? Well this is what draws the general public to the event surely???? But it will never happen will it??? Regards Charlie www.bsaotter.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hi, Earlier in this post I 'liberated' an image of Scott Ellis on 'BOK', which showed what development in 1969 was like - and some wanted to attack it with an angle grinder, etc., etc., well I thought it might add to the fun if I showed you just what the bike looked like when Scott first had it!! It was photographed on 'White Rocks' in the 1966 John Douglas trial by Gordon Francis for offroadarchive. Enjoy. By the way how many knew that Scott's absolute signature "flat 'at", was not his - but actually his Dad's, Sep Ellis. Sep used it when he worked in the competition department at Ariel's in Selly Oak, where he always took it off and put all the small parts in it - so as not to lose them whilst stripping out and cleaning magnetos, carburettors and the like. Quite a few years of this sort of usage meant that the cloth of the cap soaked up oil from the workshop floor - which rendered it totally waterproof. As Scott used to drily tell us - 'twas an economical solution to keeping your head dry........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks2 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Note the bent front down tube. And the Dunlop alloy rims Has the swinging arm been shortened?? Edited January 11, 2014 by sparks2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Hi, Another of those very sad stories from the world of classic trials. Regarded by many, myself included, as one of the best potential riders of BSA trials machines, Dave Rowlands of Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire seen at Llwyncwtta in the 1966 British Experts on his works C15 was later very much involved in the development of the 175cc Bushman as a viable trials machine, but was taken ill with one of those terrible muscle wasting terminal diseases and passed away. A lovely man who had helped hundreds of fellow riders in countless ways. Enjoy his memory - I was proud to be counted as a friend. Edited January 12, 2014 by laird387 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Hi, and just for the record here is an image of Scott Ellis on the works C15T in the British Experts trial just at the start of Ashfield, taken before he and his Dad (probably) warmed up the down tube and bent it out of the way of the front wheel on full deflection! Enjoy Edited January 12, 2014 by laird387 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Earlier in this post I 'liberated' an image of Scott Ellis on 'BOK', which showed what development in 1969 was like - and some wanted to attack it with an angle grinder, etc., etc., well I thought it might add to the fun if I showed you just what the bike looked like when Scott first had it!! It was photographed on 'White Rocks' in the 1966 John Douglas trial by Gordon Francis for offroadarchive One works bike for at least three years, I wonder how many Raga & Bou get through now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi, trialsrfun, Scott was not on BOK in the above two images that I posted, sorry. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks2 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi, and just for the record here is an image of Scott Ellis on the works C15T in the British Experts trial just at the start of Ashfield, taken before he and his Dad (probably) warmed up the down tube and bent it out of the way of the front wheel on full deflection! Enjoy Hi Deryck Many years ago I asked Scott about that bent front down tube, he said it was a Brian Martin / Scott Ellis mod. Regards Sparks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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