Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Tank coating to protect against Ethanol damage


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1 bob_m

bob_m

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • Location:Tiverton, Rhode Island
  • Bike:1996 GAS Gas JTR 270

Posted 22 September 2011 - 04:47 PM

Now that I know Cam 2 has entanol in it I am considering coating the inside of my plastic tank.

Any thoughts on whether it would help protect the inside of a plastic tank from the damaging effects of the entanol with one of the tank coatings that are available? The only one I saw was from KBS but it is for metal tanks.

Does anyone know of one that works on plastic tanks?

Has anyone had success with this?

Thanks,

Bob
Bob


Ads By Google User is online

Ads By Google
  • Ad Bots


Don't want these Ads? Why not help support TC and sign up as a Trials Central Supporter?

#2 charliechitlins

charliechitlins

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,570 posts
  • Location:Bucktown, PA USA
  • Bike:'03 GG 200 Pro

Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:16 PM

Now that I know Cam 2 has entanol in it I am considering coating the inside of my plastic tank.

Any thoughts on whether it would help protect the inside of a plastic tank from the damaging effects of the entanol with one of the tank coatings that are available? The only one I saw was from KBS but it is for metal tanks.

Does anyone know of one that works on plastic tanks?

Has anyone had success with this?

Thanks,

Bob


Check with Caswell in Lyons, NY.
I've used his plating kits and they are totally sorted out and work great.
I've heard great things about his tank sealer.

#3 motojunky

motojunky

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Location:North East, MD USA
  • Bike:Scorpa SY250

Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:07 PM

Check with Caswell in Lyons, NY.
I've used his plating kits and they are totally sorted out and work great.
I've heard great things about his tank sealer.


I coated my Scorpa tank with Caswell. I was freakishly careful to follow the directions. I cleaned more than twice as much as recommended to be sure that the surface was good. ~1 month in, I have blistering in the coating inside the tank. I'm working with Caswell now to find a solution. I'm not ready to bash or give a recommendation at this point - just wanted to throw out where I stand now. I'll update when I know more. I can say that the customer service has been good so far.

The tank at 5 weeks - notice the small bubbles forming:

Posted Image

10 days later:

Posted Image

Edited by motojunky, 23 September 2011 - 12:30 PM.


#4 charliechitlins

charliechitlins

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,570 posts
  • Location:Bucktown, PA USA
  • Bike:'03 GG 200 Pro

Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:15 PM

Sorry to hear that.
I think gasoline formulas are changing so much that it's getting impossible to stay on top of additives.
And ethanol is a total clusterf**k in just about every way.
I guess the answer is to head to the airport for some ethanol free fuel.

#5 motojunky

motojunky

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Location:North East, MD USA
  • Bike:Scorpa SY250

Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:39 PM

Sorry to hear that.
I think gasoline formulas are changing so much that it's getting impossible to stay on top of additives.
And ethanol is a total clusterf**k in just about every way.
I guess the answer is to head to the airport for some ethanol free fuel.


I just tried the local airport last week and they shut me down. No tail number, no fuel. I have friends who are able to get avgas from their local airports, so that is an option. I'm thinking that I'll either drive the hour each way to get avgas or go back to the VP SEF94 that I had been using. Going to try avgas first to see how it runs before I make the call. My main issue is not having fuel readily available if I need it in a pinch. That said, it's not really that hard to plan ahead.

#6 charliechitlins

charliechitlins

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,570 posts
  • Location:Bucktown, PA USA
  • Bike:'03 GG 200 Pro

Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:19 PM

Isn't North East on the bay?
Try marinas.
Here's a link to a website that tracks where to find ethanol-free fuel.
It's not all up-to-date.
My link

#7 motojunky

motojunky

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Location:North East, MD USA
  • Bike:Scorpa SY250

Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:28 PM

Isn't North East on the bay?
Try marinas.
Here's a link to a website that tracks where to find ethanol-free fuel.
It's not all up-to-date.
My link


I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I've exhausted all avenues that I've been able to think of in the last year or so. Marinas in the area have no ethanol-free fuel. No gas stations in the area do either. I do appreciate the suggestions.

It's very, very frustrating. :wall:

I had been using the VP stuff at $9/gallon for a good while but it recently jumped to $15/gallon which prompted me to try the Caswell.

#8 copemech

copemech

    Advanced Member

  • Site Supporter
  • 9,722 posts
  • Location:TeXaS
  • Bike:Sherco
  • Club:NTTA, TXTC

Posted 24 September 2011 - 02:58 AM

The old fiberglass tanks(polyester resin) may be quickly eroded by the alcohol, but as far as I have heard, the plastic tanks do not have this issue and no reason to slosh them for liner deterioration. I fear this may create more problems due to poor bonding to the parent material. you may have a big FU here!

clue: If you need a tail number to get avgas, just pick a small cessna or piper on the ramp with nice big numbers painted in it starting with N----! The stuff is not taxed for ON road vehicles, and is not really for our use, but does work, although it is blended for cooler temps than we use it. :rolleyes:

Edited by copemech, 24 September 2011 - 03:00 AM.

Ride it Like it was one of your old Girlfriends, If you still remember how!

#9 motojunky

motojunky

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Location:North East, MD USA
  • Bike:Scorpa SY250

Posted 24 September 2011 - 04:14 AM

The old fiberglass tanks(polyester resin) may be quickly eroded by the alcohol, but as far as I have heard, the plastic tanks do not have this issue and no reason to slosh them for liner deterioration. I fear this may create more problems due to poor bonding to the parent material. you may have a big FU here!

clue: If you need a tail number to get avgas, just pick a small cessna or piper on the ramp with nice big numbers painted in it starting with N----! The stuff is not taxed for ON road vehicles, and is not really for our use, but does work, although it is blended for cooler temps than we use it. :rolleyes:


Scorpa tanks are notorious for ethanol issues. A friend has one that was so bad he couldn't get through a tank of fuel without the particles of the deteriorating tank clogging the pilot jet.

The guy at the airport rode trials in the past and was sympathetic. He suggested the same, indirectly. Thing is, I don't want to rely on a fuel source that is not consistent. Last thing I want is to adjust the jetting accordingly only to not be able to get fuel before an event.

#10 copemech

copemech

    Advanced Member

  • Site Supporter
  • 9,722 posts
  • Location:TeXaS
  • Bike:Sherco
  • Club:NTTA, TXTC

Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:32 AM

Scorpa tanks are notorious for ethanol issues. A friend has one that was so bad he couldn't get through a tank of fuel without the particles of the deteriorating tank clogging the pilot jet.

The guy at the airport rode trials in the past and was sympathetic. He suggested the same, indirectly. Thing is, I don't want to rely on a fuel source that is not consistent. Last thing I want is to adjust the jetting accordingly only to not be able to get fuel before an event.



Well, although that is the first time I have heard of this tank problem on a Scorpa, anything is possible(no Scorps expert here)and quite honestly, I have seen worse things from the stuff. Makes me wonder if Mike or Ryan have any insight on this?

Couple of good things, about the avgas, first, you are in a cooler climate and much less likely to have vapor lock issues, second, as the stuff loves you long time, you could buy a years supply and keep it in those new style cans that don't vent, as the shelf life seems rather indefinite. It is perfectly legal to use off road. :rolleyes:
Ride it Like it was one of your old Girlfriends, If you still remember how!


Ads By Google User is online

Ads By Google
  • Ad Bots


Don't want these Ads? Why not help support TC and sign up as a Trials Central Supporter?

#11 feetupfun

feetupfun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,914 posts
  • Location:Gladstone Australia
  • Bike:1963 to 1981

Posted 25 September 2011 - 05:02 AM

Maybe Scorpa tanks are made from a different plastic to other plastic motorbike tanks? My understanding is that most plastic motorcycle and car fuel tanks and portable fuel containers are made from high density polyethelene (HDPE) which is used for its mechanical properties and chemical resistance.
Are we talking Rotax motor Scorpa fuel tank or Yamaha motor Scorpa fuel tank?
There is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so

William Shakespeare

#12 motojunky

motojunky

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Location:North East, MD USA
  • Bike:Scorpa SY250

Posted 26 September 2011 - 02:34 AM

Maybe Scorpa tanks are made from a different plastic to other plastic motorbike tanks? My understanding is that most plastic motorcycle and car fuel tanks and portable fuel containers are made from high density polyethelene (HDPE) which is used for its mechanical properties and chemical resistance.
Are we talking Rotax motor Scorpa fuel tank or Yamaha motor Scorpa fuel tank?


Yamaha. 2002.

#13 bob_m

bob_m

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • Location:Tiverton, Rhode Island
  • Bike:1996 GAS Gas JTR 270

Posted 27 September 2011 - 04:52 PM

The old fiberglass tanks(polyester resin) may be quickly eroded by the alcohol, but as far as I have heard, the plastic tanks do not have this issue and no reason to slosh them for liner deterioration. I fear this may create more problems due to poor bonding to the parent material. you may have a big FU here!

clue: If you need a tail number to get avgas, just pick a small cessna or piper on the ramp with nice big numbers painted in it starting with N----! The stuff is not taxed for ON road vehicles, and is not really for our use, but does work, although it is blended for cooler temps than we use it. :rolleyes:



Maybe Scorpa tanks are made from a different plastic to other plastic motorbike tanks? My understanding is that most plastic motorcycle and car fuel tanks and portable fuel containers are made from high density polyethelene (HDPE) which is used for its mechanical properties and chemical resistance.
Are we talking Rotax motor Scorpa fuel tank or Yamaha motor Scorpa fuel tank?



As noted by you both (thank you very much), my Gas Gas gas tank is blow molded from HDPE just like the red fuel containers that never see any harmful effects from the ethanol.

I am a bit red faced that I didn't realize this myself. I can now revert back to worrying about how I am going to pay for health care once I retire (if ever).

Thanks for all the great info.

Bob
Bob

#14 gasgas249uk

gasgas249uk

    Advanced Member

  • Site Supporter
  • 869 posts
  • Location:Down South
  • Bike:80s-90s rare Catalan

Posted 05 October 2011 - 10:27 AM

For the past 2 years 4 bikes that i own have suffered with petrol fumes seeping through the plastic tank skin , bubbling the expensive paintwork on the outside.Over time plastic tanks become fractured very slightly and also seem to become more porous.

Bearing in mind the amount of time , money and frustration this has cost me i set about finding a solution.I did a lot of research and visited 2 companies that are not motorcycle connected.

I am trialing 2 products on 2 different tanks at the moment.Both are 3/4 full of standard mixed semi synthetic unleaded. 3 months in , i have no bubbling on the fresh paintwork and no bubbling inside the tank as well , like the other posting.

The 2nd tank needs longer to from any opinion.

One of the products is a little to thick to get around tank without much help(It can be done but isnt ideal).
The other product is thick but runs around the tank with a 350ml application. Both provide a thick coating internally.

Ive learnt a correct procedure for getting what i believe will be the best results

Im going to leave it another 3 months and then go from there.If they havent bubbled ill let you guys know.
If they do bubble ill try more coats.Finger crossed.
WWW.RETROTRIALS.COM

#15 painter

painter

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Location:New Hampshire-USA
  • Bike:Montesa Cota 123

Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:19 PM

Check with Caswell in Lyons, NY.
I've used his plating kits and they are totally sorted out and work great.
I've heard great things about his tank sealer.

Old thread, but the problem still exists.

The Caswell tank sealer works best if you reduce it. It seems to stick to most plastics except Polyethylene. The product was designed to repair perforated steel tanks and is as thick a natural peanut butter as packaged. It makes it tough to get good coverage. Polyethylene also allows fuel to bleed through which causes paint adhesion issues.

All the tanks made by Acerbis are PA-6 nylon and have real problems with deformation from water absorption. The street bike market has had real issues also with Ducati losing a class action suit recently and most other manufacturers going back to steel, or using PA-6 with skins to hide the issue.

I'll be coating my Cota tank as part of the refurb.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users