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Non stop, but do we need more changes?


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#1 pete_scorpa3

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:42 AM

With only a handful of riders in the world able to get the best from a modern trials bike, the recent change of rules to non stop may not be enough to make a real difference to the sport.

If bikes were heavier this would limit their capabilities, but this is a difficult change to make, check and enforce.

If bikes were less powerful it would make a difference, but again, next to impossible to put in place.

If suspension was less effective it would be a big handycap but this is impossible to introduce.

How about tyres?

This is not my idea and I'm not saying it would work, I'm simply throwing it out for discussion (and yes I know this will be an emotive subject, even the thought of it will enrage many.) But just for a moment try to think subjectively of the advantages/disadvantages of using less grippy tyres.

Start off by considering the pros and cons of a 'control' tyre made from hard compound rubber with half the normal tread.

Pete


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#2 johnnyboxer

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:47 AM

Just scrap modern bikes and make everybody ride Pre-65's :chairfall:
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#3 telecat

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:48 AM

Reading the ACU handbook they have a spec they cannot exceed. Leaves only Compound and that's down to users really. I doubt they will sell many if they puncture too easily or wear out too fast and The "top" levels of all Motorsport use tyres that exceed the performance of the "road" versions. Spec tyres work because they are Policed. As My sons bike is never checked at Trials Apart from nationals how do you expect to be able to do this? I could also ask how professional do you want the sport to be? That will cost LARGE amounts and will be passed on to the rider.
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#4 telecat

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:50 AM

Just scrap modern bikes and make everybody ride Pre-65's :chairfall:


And How Many times do we hear about Pre-65's and how "original" they are. That's a whole new set of arguments!!!!
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#5 greychapel

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 04:17 PM

many years ago none other than sammy miller proposed using road type tyres so section could be made easier. If no stop is to work the sections must be"right" (not easy)and the observing strict and consistent..again not easy...perhaps train an elite group for btc rounds...Hmmm not easy....

#6 ormplus

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:06 PM

just use pirelli mt43s and that would work and they would last a whole season. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

#7 nigel dabster

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:17 PM

many years ago none other than sammy miller proposed using road type tyres so section could be made easier. If no stop is to work the sections must be"right" (not easy)and the observing strict and consistent..again not easy...perhaps train an elite group for btc rounds...Hmmm not easy....

...which is why a test event would be such a good idea.

#8 telecat

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:51 PM

Road Tyres!!!! You have seen what goes for road tyres these days!!!!
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#9 woody

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:07 AM

It's no use proposing changes to bikes, minimum weight, thinner rims, less suspension travel etc. The cost would inevitably be borne by the customer anyway but what do you do about existing bikes?

Trials used to be the most basic, easily understandable sport you could wish for - what happened...??

The day they relented and allowed trick riding was the begining of the end.

A harder compound tyre is the only cheap and effective way of reducing grip and as a consequence reducing the bike's capability.

#10 nigel dabster

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 06:09 AM

It's no use proposing changes to bikes, minimum weight, thinner rims, less suspension travel etc. The cost would inevitably be borne by the customer anyway but what do you do about existing bikes?

Trials used to be the most basic, easily understandable sport you could wish for - what happened...??

The day they relented and allowed trick riding was the begining of the end.

A harder compound tyre is the only cheap and effective way of reducing grip and as a consequence reducing the bike's capability.


Trick riding started with bernie and the pivot turn, 3rd gear slipping the clutch in southern mud, then the bunny hop and so on, all when the rules were no stop called progress something you cannot stop whatever the sport and that was way before any stop allowed.
All sports change and evolve and harping back to the good old days wont help us now, we need to look at what we are doing to make the sport attractive and affordable.


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#11 pete_scorpa3

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:02 AM

Trick riding started with bernie and the pivot turn, 3rd gear slipping the clutch in southern mud, then the bunny hop and so on, all when the rules were no stop called progress something you cannot stop whatever the sport and that was way before any stop allowed.
All sports change and evolve and harping back to the good old days wont help us now, we need to look at what we are doing to make the sport attractive and affordable.


And tyres is something that can be changed and policed relatively easily.

Having less grip would mean riders lost more marks, so sections could be easier.

This would open up land that currently is not challenging enough and help to prevent errosion that is effecting the land we already have.

There is a strong and growing core of enthusiasts in the sport who think this may be the way forward.

#12 nigel dabster

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:30 AM

And tyres is something that can be changed and policed relatively easily.

Having less grip would mean riders lost more marks, so sections could be easier.

This would open up land that currently is not challenging enough and help to prevent errosion that is effecting the land we already have.

There is a strong and growing core of enthusiasts in the sport who think this may be the way forward.


Fine and dandy if it comes from the top (fim) but not if it just means riders in stratford have smaller tyres?
Also why would it make much difference to an over 40 riding a beck in yorkshire?

Again turning the clock back or tinkering with the rules, will that mean more want to ride trials?

#13 danbeaven

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:34 AM

And tyres is something that can be changed and policed relatively easily.

Having less grip would mean riders lost more marks, so sections could be easier.

This would open up land that currently is not challenging enough and help to prevent errosion that is effecting the land we already have.

There is a strong and growing core of enthusiasts in the sport who think this may be the way forward.


Let's see them then.
I cannot possibly see how this moves 'the sport' forward. Stop v No-stop is a valid debate, each with it's own merits and de-merits - ultimately either can allow for sections hard enough to let the best man on the day shine. Imposing a control tire is just rediculous and reflective of the namby-pamby controlled society we live in.....sod it, lets put a throttle stop on everyones bike at quarter turn and take off a footpeg!

#14 pete_scorpa3

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:38 PM

Let's see them then.
I cannot possibly see how this moves 'the sport' forward. Stop v No-stop is a valid debate, each with it's own merits and de-merits - ultimately either can allow for sections hard enough to let the best man on the day shine. Imposing a control tire is just rediculous and reflective of the namby-pamby controlled society we live in.....sod it, lets put a throttle stop on everyones bike at quarter turn and take off a footpeg!


Just to make things clear, I am not advocating this idea, I am simply putting it out for discussion.

You write about the "namby-pamby controlled society we live in" but remember the tyres we use are already strictly controlled in respect of size and tread pattern. The ACU could alter this specification if they wished.

However, the tread is often the least important factor which is why a control tyre might be more appropriate to this idea. Just think of how many other motorsports now use control tyres.

#15 andat

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 01:29 PM

Just to make things clear, I am not advocating this idea, I am simply putting it out for discussion.

You write about the "namby-pamby controlled society we live in" but remember the tyres we use are already strictly controlled in respect of size and tread pattern. The ACU could alter this specification if they wished.

However, the tread is often the least important factor which is why a control tyre might be more appropriate to this idea. Just think of how many other motorsports now use control tyres.



Ban radial tyres....keep tread and tyres size as is. Simples
Long time dead so don't waste a minute....




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