73 replies to this topic

[76ty175]

MV Do you ride the TX champ rounds? If so how meny vintage riders compete in the 6 round series?

[jmck]

In our club, the Metrolina Trials Riders, we had our first ITSA Regaional Championship this year and had a blast doing it.
A couple of our guys are asking about having a 'no-stop' event to see how everyone likes it, but ITSA rules are not in favor of it.

htrdoug, on 14 December 2011 - 11:51 PM, said:

Think of all the man-hours No Stop saves in not having to fiddle a vintage clutch into modern style action,worth it right there...


Really hoping that ITSA's schedule doesn't conflict with Trials Inc. much this coming year

In our club, the Metrolina Trials Riders, we had our first ITSA Regaional Championship this year and had a blast doing it.
A couple of our guys are asking about having a 'no-stop' event to see how everyone likes it, but ITSA rules are not in favor of it.

[jse]

B40RT, on 15 December 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

Fiddler crab ? Like this ?


OMG-Trivia-08-23-11.jpg

Of course in America they must have the clutch on the right !

Yep. That's what the arm felt like after an hour or two with some of
the old clutches. We run our clutch levers on the left over here as a tribute
to where Trials began....

Jon

[motovita]

I would prefer to ride vintage events under the rules that prevailed when my Bultaco was current, but I wonder if no stop is really that big of a deal. I mostly ride my vintage bike in modern events,due to a lack of vintage events,and frankly if I've stopped in a section I've done myself no favors. Most likely I'm paddling away from whatever blunder I've comitted and will be lucky to get out with a three anyway. "Stopping and bopping" on a vintage bike just isn't realistic for the vast majority of us.
As small as trials competition is in the U.S. it seems likely that that many riders and observers will participate in both modern and vintage events so the closer we align the two the easier it will be on both the riders and observers.

[copemech]

MotoVintage, on 15 December 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

THANKS for clearing that one up for me, as long as a momentary pause or a stop with feet up is not a 5 I'm good with it

Not that I actually ride one of those POS, but look at things this way. There are probably a lot of folke out there with older bikes that would like to go out and have some fun without restrictive rules and a lot of BS!

I have always thought ITSA may have a bright future if and when some got totally fed up with AHRMA, and that is still true.

Yes, there re a few hard core folks that want to be a national AHRMA Champion, yet not many. For the most part, folks just want to drag out their bikes and ride.

Now not only does this offer an oppertunity for many to incorporate the ITSA series with their exhisting club events, National events, and so fourth. As in the NATC take on things, we do not want to exclude folks here, we want to INVITE them.

Along with that, I can see incorporation of riders and classes of more modern bikes, such as Early Monos, Modified T/S and such! Let them do their thing and enjoy it! For god's sake, is it not for our enjoyment in the first place? Why and who pays the bills here is all up to the riders, not Ahrma for sure!

Is your bike 20years old? Lets RIDE!

Edited by copemech, 16 December 2011 - 05:25 AM.

[axulsuv]

Cope, At a ITSA event if it's got two wheels and brakes and is SAFE to ride , Bring it on out and ride it! You should see some of the ingenious creations that have been built and work quite well ...
Glenn

Edited by axulsuv, 16 December 2011 - 11:20 AM.

[zippy]

axulsuv, on 15 December 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

MV... These are the ITSA riding rules copied and pasted from their website...
Make of them what you will...

Section Scoring Definitions

Ø Clean: No points (zero). The rider completes the section without committing an error.

Ø Dab: Any intentional contact (dab) between a rider's foot, or any other part of the body, and a supporting surface or object either inside or outside the boundary is scored one point. Dragging a dab is considered a 3.
Ø Touching both feet to the ground at the same time while astride the machine = 2 points (one dab for each foot).
Ø Footing: three or more dabs, or paddling with both feet = 3 points.
Ø Failure: The following instances during a section attempt will result in a score of five points:
o Stopping with a foot down
o Stopping and balance will be permitted.
o Ribbon out-of-bounds: a machine may ride on a ribbon, but not beyond it. There must be ground visible between the inner edge of the tire and wrong side of the ribbon to be considered a 5. This also applies to the ribbon used in a split gate.
o Crossing own wheel track, one or both.

o Displacement of markers within section.

o Both feet on same side of motorcycle.

I personally don't think it can get any simpler than That.
And yes Bob himself gave me a 5 for doing a rollback but it was stated plainly in the riders meeting and I forgot ...
Get out to a ITSA event and ENJOY yourself !
Glenn

Those are the rules I rode to when I started out as a kid. I still try to ride to those rules. I think those work well for older twinshock machines. My biggest complaint with modern events is that a foot down while stopped is scored as a one. At that point you are now a kickstand and it take no skill to do that FAILURE! But balancing while stopped is skillful and that is what trials scores - skill and ability on the bike.

Is it correct that AHRMA did not allow 80's bikes in the their events? I was under the impression that an 86 TLR200 Reflex was not considered "legal" to ride. For God's sake the bike is now 25yrs old that makes it classic or vintage doesn't it??

As far as no-stop and hop and bop. I agree that modern machine riders can benefit from a smooth flowing riding style and the ability to walk the section and plan your line. Now in MOTA we really make the sections tight for some reason, classes up through Advanced usually can make the turns without hopping if done perfectly. But sometimes a bit of hopping will line you up better for an obstacle, so in those cases a combination of both riding styles works well. But modern machines are designed for this type of riding. Expert class............aaww screw em make it impossible they are the best we got OK maybe not screw em but their sections are pretty tight and hard to ride, but our Experts are really good, even the ones that finish at the bottom of the class are kick ass riders.

[motovintage]

76TY175, on 16 December 2011 - 01:22 AM, said:

MV Do you ride the TX champ rounds? If so how meny vintage riders compete in the 6 round series?

I do not ride the entire series, just the southern Texas events, it's too far for me to go to north Texas with my limited free time, we have 2 classes for vintage twinshock bikes, one runs the Novice line and the other runs the Amateur line, I think over the 6 round series there were 15 to 20 vintage riders counting both classes.

[76ty175]

MotoVintage, on 16 December 2011 - 01:55 PM, said:

I do not ride the entire series, just the southern Texas events, it's too far for me to go to north Texas with my limited free time, we have 2 classes for vintage twinshock bikes, one runs the Novice line and the other runs the Amateur line, I think over the 6 round series there were 15 to 20 vintage riders counting both classes.

Thanks for the info, with the lack of events this year I am considering other series to ride. May give TX a shot, unless we get a ITSA West series for 2012.

[tony283]

Wow ! what a lot of replies and feelings ? Thank you all for your comments both on this web site and and on my "blog".

To answer one or two questions, the first concerning the Twinshock Class proposal. This has been submitted on numerous occasions and usually met with an unqualified rejection. This year it was a 50/50 affair. From reading between the lines they (the trustees) thought that allowing them in would require a FIFTH or SIXTH line through the sections, as though these machines, basically those built post 1979, were some "superbike" that would clean everything that we laid out. Not the case as WE all know, and indeed many bikes of that period do ride Ahrma trials along with modern bikes. They are divided into Modern Twinshock and Modern Support BUT are not competing for any National Championship.

So in essence our propsal sought to allow "the last of the Twinshocks" in and give them their own class and championship. It would of course have swelled entries to events and Ahrma membership. Just because you own a Fantic or a late model SWM or Bultaco doesn't mean you can ride everything!

After the Ahrma/AMA debacle costs rose with a large increases in membership fees, entry costs and in some cases event parking! ITSA on the other hand costs a LOT less in ALL departments including event insurance and is still in good standing with the AMA.

The ITSA rule of "stopping in balance" just clarifies what was always a "grey" area even back in the early 60's when I started riding in the UK. The rules stated that a failure would be deemed to have occurred ...... "when the front wheel ceased to rotate in a forward direction." Back then very FEW Observers would penalise this if your feet were on the rests and if you were using the clutch to achieve it you still had the problem of re-engaging same and finding traction without wheelspin.

ITSA section layout and event checking is covered in my latest blog article but from all these comments, and as its that time of the year .....

IT's Beginning to Look a Lot Like ITSA !!

Happy Christmas

Tony

[copemech]

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[copemech]

My basic thoughts here:

Three types of vintage riders:

1- Hardcore Old Iron restorers with big bucks to play with their toys they love.

2- Those that have an old bike, like to ride it, and that may be all budjet allows, do not want to be World Champs, just want to ride.

3- The modern riders that may have an old bike, or want one to play with, yet have been put off by AHRMA rules and such because of all the BS!

Getting(or inviting) these folks for a day out is a big deal! They are out there!

Opening ITSA branches is a start, I do not know that it neccessarily needs to stray far from the regular established clubs events in a regional sense, as they all get together. Yes, there could be special or separate sections. Yet that is where the ITSA comes in.

If there were any common sense applied to any of this, then Zippy might be able to go ride his little TL or whatever it is and get some fun riding in, possibly some regional points! Mayby even qualify for a National get together for a long weekend!

You get the jest ovit!

As a ps- I doubt we have seen the last of Mr Peacock, bless him and lovely wife. They have worked hard at the sport they love.

[76ty175]

copemech, on 17 December 2011 - 04:13 AM, said:

As a ps- I doubt we have seen the last of Mr Peacock, bless him and lovely wife. They have worked hard at the sport they love.

[jse]

copemech, on 17 December 2011 - 04:13 AM, said:

I doubt we have seen the last of Mr Peacock, bless him and lovely wife. They have worked hard at the sport they love.

It would be hard to find better representitives of the sport.

Jon

[tony283]

Well for those following this gripping yarn here are some articles that I wrote back in 2008 and nothing much has changed since then. The Board of Trustees keeps rejecting the proposal, Ahrma lost its standing with the AMA, all fees have gone up, and after many years of excellent events (for trials riders) under Ed's leadership we are left with a pathetic series which few will bother going to unless it is on their doorstep.

The time is ripe for change as the Trustees won't !

Tony




]That Twinshock Class

Stop or No Stop

The Hornets Nest

Edited by tony283, 17 December 2011 - 09:32 PM.

[hop_sing]

I feel very fortunate to belong to a club that has it going on!
Our Sacramento Pits Club has a Vintage/Beginner trial on Saturday and a Class A trial on Sunday.
We use checkers from family members, friends and riders that earn points,so we don't have to have morning/evening events with all riders checking.
Anyway, our Saturday Trial comes with basically the ARHMA rules, i.e. no stop.
It is a little confusing for the checkers at times, remembering if it's Saturday or Sunday rules, and regardless at how quick a checker is to call you on a 5 for stopping we just ask them to be consistent.
I feel the separation between ARHMA and the modern bikes is wrong.
So, this year at my Carr's Rocky Ridge Trial I have invited ARHMA to join us.
They have accepted.
Our Vintage/Beginner day has as many as six lines. 4,3,2,1,0,0+
The 4,3,2 lines are very close to vintage lines, with the 1,0 lines stepping it up, and the 0 being a advanced line, 0+ expert.
We also have many classes, i.e. 2 line modern, 2 line classic, 2 line heavyweight, 2 line premier,and 2 line junior. Just about anything you could dream up.
If you want to win just find a class no one is signing up for.

Insurance is a little harder when involving more than one club.
And I am loyal to the AMA. but there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I have a sharp knife, and would be happy to see all TRIALS RIDERS coming to the events.
All are welcome at The Carr's Rocky Ridge Trial.
April 14th, Chrome, California. {15th Class A}
Check the Sacramento Pits web site at www.sactopits.org. Sometime soon we will have the calender posted.
.