vexedofverwood Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone i'm new to the site as me and my father are repairing and eventually restoring my 81 Cota 200 and i'm probably going to need some of your wisdom! I've had the bike for about 4 years now, and it was running fine until one day, it randomly wouldn't fire up (there's no longer a spark), and also the gears are messed up.... It's difficult for me to explain what the gears are doing and i'll give it my best at describing the problem but chances are i'll have to take it to a specialist! right the gear lever/selector wil click up and down but i think it's going into other gears all in one click. i.e if i go up from neutral (when i can get it into neutral that is) it will select the next gear, then the lever won't spring back into the middle but will allow me to carry on going up into the next gear, and possibly the next gear after that! and it's the same when i shift back down again. Also the kickstarter doesn't spring back to it's starting position (but i think i can fix that one). I've got lots of pictures and i've got the bike in pieces now, i've taken the case off the side of the crankcase, so the clutch and cogs etc are all out in the open.... Please help as i have little knowledge on this engine because i've never needed to work on it before. There's also a small key slot in the stem in the side of the frame, just under the handlebars/yolkes does anyone know anything about this? I think it's some sort of steering lock which i don't have a key for. Thankyou Luke I couldn't work out how to upload pictures onto this forum, so the pictures are in the link's below. (I'll be copying and pasting this on other forums) http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4087.0;attach=2534 http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4087.0;attach=2536 http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4087.0;attach=2538 http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4087.0;attach=2540 http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4087.0;attach=2542 http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4087.0;attach=2544 Edited January 26, 2012 by VexedOfVerwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm sure you get some decent replies later on Luke; from memory (it was ?? a lot) of years ago....... they had a system to protect the internals of the gearbox... I keep visualising little sprung dogs like on a pushbike rear wheel sprocket drive which would break out if the gearstick was wacked hard it rendered sensible gear selection impossible but protected insides...if you get no answers why not go in from the gearstick side carefully. I also remember what a job getting the primary drive gear off the crank was.phew thats another story. good luck.. Ps hang on a bit for other guys to get to read your post and reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Your links can't be viewed unless a person is a member of that forum. You can either put the pictures on a photobucket and link to that or become a site supporter and that will allow you to show pictures in your post. I can't really follow what you mean with the gear selection. It sounds as though it is selecting ok but if the lever doesn't return then generally the selector spring isn't fitted correctly or is broken. Sometimes the gear shaft can be bent slightly, enough to prevent the spring returning the lever but not enough to prevent selection. Presumably, when you are selecting upwards from neutral, you have to return the lever yourself before selecting the next gear. Not sure it is possible to just keep going up without centering the lever each change otherwise it doesn't re-engage the pawls in the drum for the next selection. The selector itself works by pawls which engage in the drum. If these get chipped, generally it means no selection at all as the edge of the pawl that engages and moves the drum are no longer there. The picture below is from a 330 Montesa which I think is very similar. The pawls are behind the round plate with the 4 screws and you can see the selector spring to the right of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 VOV, if you strip the seletor mechanism be aware that the slot in which the pawls run is off centre. It goes together nicely the wrong way up but you only get three gears so take a note before removing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexedofverwood Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the fast responses guys, yeah you're all on the same level as me, i'm scared... i'm going to have to take the crank case apart aren't i!? lol. Chewy i hope what you're saying is right, because that would mean it's an easy and cheap fix (if i can find any parts) there's a selector barrel on ebay at the moment, not sure yet if i'll need it or not though! Woody, the gear lever as you click it up or down into a gear used to spring back to the centre. I'm going to be honest a little bit here guys, 4 years ago when the bike was running, i remember the gear lever was a little bit too far out of reach for my little left foot, so i took the lever off, and lowered it a little bit (moved it anti-clockwise a little), and to put the lever back on in it's new position, i might have used a small hammer to get it back on there! because it wouldn't go back on and i was young haha. Photo's can be found on this forum also.... http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7130 Edited January 26, 2012 by VexedOfVerwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewb Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Vexed, I wouldn't worry too much about the work, these gearboxes and selectors are quite simple compared to the 349 types. The gearbox on the 200 is much the same as the 123 and hadn't changed for some time. If you can get hold of a Clymer (I think) workshop manual for Montesas upto 1975/6 this should help you. There always seem to be a few on that there popular auction site. If you have the clutch cover off already check the selector return spring (on the end of the gear selector shaft) and the spring and bearing that locates in the selector drum. This is usually a hollowed bolt on the topside of the RH centre crank case. If you remove the bolt carefully there should be a spring and ball bearing inside. Mind it doesn't ping across the workshop. Best of luck Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerorev3rev4 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 the gear selector mechanism doest look much like the pic of the 330 , if you have hit the external selector on with a hammer it could of pushed the shaft through and the spring could of come out of place ,theres a circlip and washer on the left side check that they are in the groove as the clip becomes weak and slips ,you need to remove the clutch pack via the centre nut then pull the outer hub off to gain access there is a toothed arm that reaches up to a cog they have dots on which need to be aligned ,the arm rests on a stop which can also wear badly , also been sat for 4 years will render all the moving parts been dry of oil unless you have had it running when trying to select the gears its best to have the output shaft and input shaft rotating to allow for the cogs to engage ,if theres no spark replace the points and condensor , the lock on the front of frame is just a steering lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 the gear selector mechanism doest look much like the pic of the 330 , No, my mistake, I was forgetting the 200 has the clutch on the opposite side from the 247/348/349/330, so what I said wasn't much use for the 200... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexedofverwood Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Cheers guys, you're all helping me out alot! i'm going to have a stab at it now. Andrewb you're right about the clymer manual, i've looked online at some 123's and it's pretty much the same engine, and i've come accross a website with a man restoring one, and he's got lots of piccys! Zerorev3rev4 your information is very helpful, i'm going out there now into the freezing garage to do all that you have just said. I WANT THIS BIKE RUNNING BY TONIGHT! i managed to get the kick starter mechanism working all ok yesterday, doesn't spring back to it's starting position though? is it supposed to? Also the kick starter i've bought is working whilst there's no plug in there, but the splines are crap so i imagine when it's ready to be run, i'm probably going to get one good turn out of it and then the splines will be as smooth as a baby's a***. better order a new one! for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexedofverwood Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 right boys, i've had a breakthrough! i've sorted the gear lever out so it now returns to the centre, the shaft from where i had hit it on with a hammer had been pushed through to the other side by about 5mm so the spring arm which is supoosed to sit behind the screw/post had come off, so i gently tapped it back through and it's worked... sort of. no it feels as if it's not going into the gears. it's sat in a gear at the moment, but i can't click it up and down into other gears i.e down and down and down then up to the middle to engage neutral. i've put the kick starter on and gave it a pull with my hand to move the cogs about inside a bit to see if that helped but no luck. ummmmm dad says put it back in the frame put the chain on and rock it back and forth. but wouldn't that be doing the same as me pulling on the kick starter? Either way i think i'm almost there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexedofverwood Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 just had another quick play with it.... right when i pull the kickstarter, everything happens as it should piston etc. but the front sprocket spins too, so i then grabbed the front sprocket and held it whilst pulling the kick starter and it didn't spin.... also the sprocket will turn freely by hand without the piston going aswel. so it's obviously in neutral, but it won't click down or up into gear! arghhh!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexedofverwood Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 i've just snapped the small plastic connecting tube coming off the bottom of the fuel switch! this just gets better and better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne_weedon Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) just had another quick play with it.... right when i pull the kickstarter, everything happens as it should piston etc. but the front sprocket spins too, so i then grabbed the front sprocket and held it whilst pulling the kick starter and it didn't spin.... also the sprocket will turn freely by hand without the piston going aswel. so it's obviously in neutral, but it won't click down or up into gear! arghhh!! Static gearchange tests are not always possible. Try shifting whilst turning the final drive sprocket. The dogs and slots on the gears need to line up for a shift to take place. Edited January 25, 2012 by wayne_weedon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerorev3rev4 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 petrol tap cheap on ebay from inmotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vexedofverwood Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) it's fixed!! gearbox is selecting gears, it's sparking, it's going to work!! just got to put the exhaust, the rear mudguard, airbox, tighten up the rear wheel nuts and chain tensioners and all those other gubbins back on. the fuel tap i'm going to glue as a temporary fix. just to see it running! I need to put some gearbox oil in it too though, from ehere i emptied the clutch bit to access the insides. what oil could i use?? Edited January 26, 2012 by VexedOfVerwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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