warren

Bike Cut-Out And Now It Wont Start !

19 posts in this topic

My 2006 TXT PRO 300 had been running fine all day until at tick-over it just died, as if it had run out of fuel. Switched to reserve, tried to kick her up nothing not even a splutter. Filled tank, still nothing. Stuck her in the van and went home. Today I stripped and cleaned the Carb, stuck in a new Plug and still wont fire-up. It did run for a few seconds but immediately bogged and died. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

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Thanks for the reply. Do the stators just "fail" as the bike has been starting second kick prior to this problem. Remember seeing some info on the gas gas usa site about checking the stator. Looks I will be in the garage with me meter tonight.

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Did a few more checks and found that I was only getting a spark every 2/3 kicks. Decided to have a look at the electrics/wiring. Everything was a bit grubby so started to remove stuff to give it a clean. Noticed that the the insulation on the back of the Rectifier (think thats what it is) was burnt in places. A bit of digging with a pen knife revealed circuit board black and burnt. (see pic) Just hope it hasnt taken anything else out.

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The rectifier in your picture converts 1 of two ac supplies to dc for powering the fan and lights. It plays no part in the ignition system.

The ignition system consists of:

Ignitor coil

Coil pick up

Cdi unit

High voltage coil

Ht lead

Spark plug

Kill switch

In laymans..

As the flywheel rotates, the ignitor coil (2nd ac circuit) creates an ac supply for the cdi unit.

The coil pickup senses the firing point from the flywheel (located where the notch is on the flywheel) which tells the cdi when to release this stored energy to one side of the high voltage coil (primary circuit) which increases the volts further and sends it out the other side (secondary circuit) down the ht lead to the spark plug - all in an instant.

End of lesson... :)

Assuming the wiring and spark plug is good It's most likely the ignitor coil on the stator (the large black one). Cdi units and high voltage coils rarely fail, so sure of this is gas gas that they claim to never have had one confirmed as being faulty.

First check is to disconnect the kill switch, see if it starts, if so its just a faulty switch.

Another quick but not highly accurate check is to set your plug gap to .3 mm. If your bike starts and runs then it's a sure sign your ignition coil although not completely dead is very weak and on its way out fast.

Check the Ignitor coil insulation by testing resistance accross the red/white and red/black wires (on the main plug) it should be around 20 ohms +-15% weather it's hot or cold.

On the same wires crank it over with your meter set to ac volts, you should see about 35-40volts ac if I remember correctly - perhaps someone can check as I'm not 100% sure, I would check for you but I'm away from home till Friday.

This should only take you 20 mins or so, let us know what results you get.

By the way new stators are not cheap,

Edited by tankygsy
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Thank you for the lesson :) think I understood it. The problem is I described the symptoms to Kevin at Gas GAS UK who said that the problem was either the Coil (unlikely) or the Regulator (most common) so when I found the burnt regulator I thought I had hit gold. It would appear now that that is not the case.

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The rectifier in your picture converts 1 of two ac supplies to dc for powering the fan and lights. It plays no part in the ignition system.

The ignition system consists of:

Ignitor coil

Coil pick up

Cdi unit

High voltage coil

Ht lead

Spark plug

Kill switch

In laymans..

As the flywheel rotates, the ignitor coil (2nd ac circuit) creates an ac supply for the cdi unit.

The coil pickup senses the firing point from the flywheel (located where the notch is on the flywheel) which tells the cdi when to release this stored energy to one side of the high voltage coil (primary circuit) which increases the volts further and sends it out the other side (secondary circuit) down the ht lead to the spark plug - all in an instant.

End of lesson... :)

Assuming the wiring and spark plug is good It's most likely the ignitor coil on the stator (the large black one). Cdi units and high voltage coils rarely fail, so sure of this is gas gas that they claim to never have had one confirmed as being faulty.

First check is to disconnect the kill switch, see if it starts, if so its just a faulty switch.

Another quick but not highly accurate check is to set your plug gap to .3 mm. If your bike starts and runs then it's a sure sign your ignition coil although not completely dead is very weak and on its way out fast.

Check the Ignitor coil insulation by testing resistance accross the red/white and red/black wires (on the main plug) it should be around 20 ohms +-15% weather it's hot or cold.

On the same wires crank it over with your meter set to ac volts, you should see about 35-40volts ac if I remember correctly - perhaps someone can check as I'm not 100% sure, I would check for you but I'm away from home till Friday.

This should only take you 20 mins or so, let us know what results you get.

By the way new stators are not cheap, £450 +. You can have them re wound for circa £150 or if you feel upto it you can get some very fine magnet wire from brococks for about £10 and have a go at re winding it yourself, but it's fiddly and can be a pita if your not careful when taking it apart. I've not been able to find an Ignitor coil to replace the original but they do exist somewhere it's just finding the right one to fit.

Hope this helps...

Good write up bud :thumbup:

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Update !!!!!!!! After doing all the checks suggested and getting the results expected, still nowt !!!! Even pulled the Flywheel to check the key, all good. So I decided to use the none scientific approach of replacing the bits that are "broke" so bit the bullet and order a new Regulator. Fitted it today and guess what ? yes it started second kick !!!!!!!

So it would appear that the "bit that plays no part in the ignition system" plays a major part in the ignition system.

Ah well every days a school day.

Happy days, can get out and ride this weekend !!!!

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Hi warren

My most humblest apologies chap! My post referred to the 2005 - 2007 kukosan digital version 2 type, which my own bike has a' la' :

http://www.trialspartsusa.com/diagrams/KokusanDigital2005Pro.jpg

Your ignition system appears to be the 2005 - 2006 Ducati version 2 digital type:

http://www.trialspartsusa.com/diagrams/DUCATIdigital2005.JPG

Looking at the pic of the regulator again i can see what looks like the word Ducati - a bit of a give away but not so easy to spot on an iPhone 3!

As you can see in the drawings these are two very different systems and your cdi is clearly fed via the regulator and generator for an ac and dc supply whereas mine simply has its own single ac feed.

Sorry to confuse things for you. My post is only of use to those with a kukosan ignition. I know how fustrating it can be to get to a point of diagnosis where you think youve cracked it only to be guided on an alternative fruitless path by a numbnut engineer like me!

Mental note to self: get a pc for home cause the iPhone screen has its limitations

I'm glad it's fixed and working again now fella and hope you have a good ride at the weekend.

Edited by tankygsy
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No apologies required my friend, it would seem that 2005/2006 was a change over year for the Gas Gas Ignitions. Even then there were two Regulators fitted one with a Black connector (mine) and one with a Blue connector. As a result of your post I know "a little more " about Ignition Systems. As far as Im concerned the more I learn the better. And you never know it may help someone with a similar problem.

Thanks again Warren

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Update !!!!!!!! After doing all the checks suggested and getting the results expected, still nowt !!!! Even pulled the Flywheel to check the key, all good. So I decided to use the none scientific approach of replacing the bits that are "broke" so bit the bullet and order a new Regulator. Fitted it today and guess what ? yes it started second kick !!!!!!!

So it would appear that the "bit that plays no part in the ignition system" plays a major part in the ignition system.

Ah well every days a school day.

Happy days, can get out and ride this weekend !!!!

Told ya so...... :wall:

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Hi! I have a 05 GasGas TXT 280 Pro with just the similiar problem.

Kick it, but only sparks 2/3 rotations. Can get it fired up when i put it in 6th gir and rolling downhill, cutting alot in the start.

Everything works great when it run, but can't idle it, then it cuts right out.

Have tried to check everything, any more ideas?

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FWIW certain years the problem with the OP's of this thread, seems to match other posts I have read (bad rectifier). BUT, I bought on 07, that someone didn't get the stator plate tight (behind flywheel has the coils and stuff on it, and it lost spark at least enough spark I couldnt kick start it, I didnt try pull starting when I tested with plug out and it didn't seem to spark. I too had to unhook kill switch then decided to check wires for burns and or bad connections, I then took flywheel off, and just happened to touch the stator, it was loose, just barely loose but loose. I figured since it was no longer properly grounded, I hoped I had found the answer. tightened the bolts (3 of them) after taking off the flywheel of course, put flywheel on, and I had spark again. and it hasn't missed a bit since. BTW make sure you have kill switch so you can kill the bike, snooping under the tank you can cause the throttle cable to have carb held open, scary stuff without kill switch, bad enough if you have one hooked up, lol.

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Have tryed to check the stator two times before with no luck. Everything seems to match the ohm's in the wiring diagram for the Kokusan system.

Possible either stator or the ignition module in my head. Very expencive so buy a wrong part.

Have done a full engine rebuild after majure breakdown, so I really want it to work again.

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Explain what happened before.

"majure breakdown" what?

" full engine rebuild" whats been done?

May be ignition but if it worked before........

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