18 replies to this topic

[the observer]

since the natc nationals are only for guys that can afford the time and money to drive all over creation should the natc create a regional series to fill the gap between club trials and the nats?

[rlracer]

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[rlracer]

Why ? There is already a Central Regional championship. If you want a regional series get with the clubs in your area say east or west coast or where ever your from and get one started, it works wonderfully. The Central Regional in my area consist of 5 two day events 2 before summer and 3 after summer. Works great as it helps the clubs and you don't have to ride all the events.

[the observer]

rlracer, on 11 April 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Why ? There is already a Central Regional championship. If you want a regional series get with the clubs in your area say east or west coast or where ever your from and get one started, it works wonderfully. The Central Regional in my area consist of 5 two day events 2 before summer and 3 after summer. Works great as it helps the clubs and you don't have to ride all the events.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Thanks.

[steve fracy]

The Pacific Northwest also has a regional series that includes Wa, Or, and BC in Canada.

[kramit]

the observer, on 11 April 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

since the natc nationals are only for guys that can afford the time and money to drive all over creation should the natc create a regional series to fill the gap between club trials and the nats?

Totally agree with the "driving all over creation" part, but I guess that's the downside of living in such a large country.
As for regional events, why bother as the NATC in their infinite wisdom has created a class that allows riders with little
or no Trials Experience to compete (coupe of magazine writers at Donner 2 years ago)
Not sure the term "National Trials" will ever be held in a high regard.

[lineaway]

Yes , it is like 6000 miles to make all the events. I have thought of it as the retired nationals for years. Unless you are retired there is no way to make them all for fun.

[steve fracy]

Perhaps a west coast and east coast championship series, best 3 out of 5 events would qqualify you for a 3 event one weekend National championship

[the observer]

Steve Fracy, on 12 April 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Perhaps a west coast and east coast championship series, best 3 out of 5 events would qqualify you for a 3 event one weekend National championship

Im not suggesting we need to replace the natc series with another format, just think that it would help if there were more regional series like the Central Regionals and the PNTA and the NATC could help create/promote it.

[steve fracy]

Perhaps a Westcoast National series could be created by designating certain PNTA events and certain SoCal events that would count towards a West Regional championship. Would be fairly easy to organize and I know that the top riders from my area would be motivated to compete in.

[jreilly]

I have always thought a east west regional events qualifiers would be the way to go.As Steve says have three or so on each coast region and a two or three event final at variuos locations for the overall.This would be like they do for the motcross guys.

Just not easy when we are so few spread out so thin in this big land!

Just my thoughts JR

[sting32]

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[sting32]

There is more to this OP's question than even he (might) know.

1st,The part, adding the "clubman" line... I dont know why that is such a "crap on" deal to Kramit

THIS doesnt "distract" from the event "nationals" for christ's sake. all it does is allow participants, from a "bigger group" of slightly lesser skilled than EXPERT riders, come compete and stuff. It put them in their own class, fer cryin out loud. Plus, It was one of the 1st times that a nationals even broke even on expenses, for example: Tishomingo Oklahoma nationals in 2010... Since it allowed about another "NOT USUALLY WANTED" 45 or so "intermediate" riders to sign up, and ride. Krammit beyotches that the "clubman" line is for beginners "with little or no trials experience" YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING ME? CLUBMAN, that is just below expert on 9 of ten clubs anywhere around me! Probably all of you guys too!

Then what gets me is, we got (Club designated) "master" class riders that ride "support/age" classes? then what are all the Pro Class, Expert class, Support Classes created for? Pro is for paid to ride, Expert should be best (MASTER CLASS?) non pro riders? then support is for EXPERT classes, right? that is how I saw the difficulty when I tried it, in 2010? or was it 09?. Te Support-age, sections were "expert" sections, higher skills required, than I normally compete on each month in the "intermediate" class, clubman was intermediate.

There is (dont know how to put this, or make it yet) a SERIOUS need to qualify for nationals, that stops the sand bagging. I believe a "regionals" for many states across the USA, could be made to fix this.

PS... I dont know how you will read this post, but those that take the money & time, to attend nationals, will do so, for competition sake as the main reason, as it is the driving force to go and enter a competition... Well except the PRO's as it is kind of their job to compete. The rest of us, want to ride against "peers" of same class and skills, not the upper class or even lower class... Its (to me at least) not like entering a Desert race, just so you can say you had the money, time, and vehicle all bought and so I went ahead and entered "just so you could say you once raced the BAJA whatever... in 2012" I know I am NOT good enough to beat "Expert" level riders at even any club event, which I again believe the "support" class is aimed at. But I do enjoy the challenge to see where I might be, when I am riding as good ad I ever have, to see where I stack up against other support class riders. But Ill be damned if I want to waste my money just to verify, that MASTER class "so and so" can beat me... No sh*t, I knew he would beat me before I spent the damn money... and at $4 diesel, I guess I will just have to dream about it for a few years...

IMHO, We ALL would be much better served if there was some kind of "check" so that pro riding masters, cant sign up for the freaking "clubman" just to win a trophy. Right now, there is no check, and if you aren't ashamed of your sandbaggin, you can ride ANY class you sign up for, well except womens and the children's classes, I think.

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Edited by Sting32, 19 April 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[ringo]

I love Kramit's knack with saying something that draws out the kind of rant above. Kramit's statement:

..."the NATC in their infinite wisdom has created a class that allows riders with little
or no Trials Experience to compete (coupe of magazine writers at Donner 2 years ago)"...

is 100% factual and stated without offering an opinion pro or con. The two riders who entered were exactly as stated, “Little or no experience”.

Chris Denison, professional freestyler [retired] and current editor for Dirt Rider Magazine had competed in only ONE trials competition prior to this National and Kris Keefer, professional motocross racer and Dirt Rider test rider had never been on a trials bike before. Neither one owns a trials bike.

For those who missed that story, these guys [along with some knucklehead in a Hawaiian shirt] rode Adventure bikes from Los Angeles to Donner [500 miles] on Friday, competed both days then we rode home right after the trial on Sunday. Kramit knows this because he rode up there with us!

How ya like Kramit now?

[hensley]

The regionals are a great way to go like rlracer said our Central Regionals are great. If there isnt a regional series in the area its great and can save thousands vrs nationals. Ive got to side with stings rant. Seems like kramit thinks the natc goofed by adding the clubman line. my calculations was last year in only seven events the clubman line had 126 entries times 75 bucks or $9450. We only rode texas i didnt see much diiference in bottlenecks and see that to be the only possible problem with the clubman line. However if one has a super big ego then they could have a problem with the clubman line just because they feel that those riders are so far beneath them they shouldnt get to compete. Yes a very talented mxer who had never ridden trials rode the clubman line didnt come close to winning but done amazingly well.
So what cody webb hasnt raced much but podiumed in Endurocross. I say those who think that the clubman riders are such poor riders they dont need to compete fork over 10 grand to the natc and lets exclude them and we can go ride regionals with the other non important people. btw sting are you and your dad going to texas?

[copemech]

ringo, on 20 April 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

I love Kramit's knack with saying something that draws out the kind of rant above. Kramit's statement:

..."the NATC in their infinite wisdom has created a class that allows riders with little
or no Trials Experience to compete (coupe of magazine writers at Donner 2 years ago)"...

is 100% factual and stated without offering an opinion pro or con. The two riders who entered were exactly as stated, “Little or no experience”.

Chris Denison, professional freestyler [retired] and current editor for Dirt Rider Magazine had competed in only ONE trials competition prior to this National and Kris Keefer, professional motocross racer and Dirt Rider test rider had never been on a trials bike before. Neither one owns a trials bike.

For those who missed that story, these guys [along with some knucklehead in a Hawaiian shirt] rode Adventure bikes from Los Angeles to Donner [500 miles] on Friday, competed both days then we rode home right after the trial on Sunday. Kramit knows this because he rode up there with us!

How ya like Kramit now?

One thing that you need to understand is the fact that there would be no NATC Nationals without the Support riders! We seem to have classes for those moving up, and those moving down as well within the age groups. And still yet within those age groups, there are indeed a bunch of hardcore riders that will travel halfway across the country or beyond just to compete, and that is great, yet somewhat limiting for even some of the most hardcore as things go both in dollars and sense!

The fact that some local riders could actually participate in the event in both a Clubman and Vintage method not only keeps foks involved but also can set the hook for those that may want to participate in other classes later.

It all adds to the till in entrys and such in an effort for the sponsoring club to actually make one of those events a financially feasonable thing, (God forbid the actual man hours and true costs if one had to pay for it) so there are a few that get to go ride! A win-win in my book!

Pity of it all is as the club is scrambling and searching for qualified observers, do you think Ringo or Kramit would offer up to at least spend a half day in a section? Doubt it, as they are in FO mode!

[motovita]

Imagine this scenario,
East, west, and central regional events run by the NATC with the current class structure.Then a five Trial series held at stadiums across North America, possibly in conjunction with other events, with four classes, Pro, Support, High School and Womens.
Personally I hate indoor events, but I saw what it did financially for MX.