kramit Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 In my 36 years of Trials participation, I have to say we now have a Checking Nightmare on our hands. I helped check a section at National Round 1 here in Ca. We were told "any contact with a section marker/sign is scored a 5". "But you can run over a ribbon with no penalty as long as the tire is not past the ribbon with ground showing between the tire and ribbon". It seems to me these 2 conflicting situations makes little common sense. We did not penalize any rider who may have come in contact with a sign short of knocking it over. In previous years, when a rider displaced a sign, it was easy to argue as the infraction was clear to see to the checker and rider due to the damage or displacement of the sign. Not the case with the new rule which I have heard is causing a lot of checking problems at the last 4 rounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Sorry but the only way to get rid of a stupid rule is to enforce it exactly as written. Just like the only way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it. When something like this is let slide by most then the people who do try to follow the rule are considered jerks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Sorry but the only way to get rid of a stupid rule is to enforce it exactly as written. Just like the only way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it. When something like this is let slide by most then the people who do try to follow the rule are considered jerks. I agree. I'm not quite sure what problem this new rule is designed to address, maybe someone can explain? Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the observer Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) First it was fourstrokes are "overpriced nightmares created by government regulation" and now this. Maybe you oughta lay off the Jalapenos before bed time cause you seem to have a lota Nightmares. Unless Jalapenos is one of your native foods. Edited June 1, 2012 by the observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramit Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I agree. I'm not quite sure what problem this new rule is designed to address, maybe someone can explain? Jon One particular problem at my section was in the Jr. line. As they turned about 180 deg. to continue on, there were large rocks on the outside of the turn. Other classes went over 3 different rocks on this outer rock boundary so there were signs tucked between/against these rocks. As some of the Jr riders brushed these rocks, they were most likely brushing against the signs and rocks at the same time......feet up for the most part. If there were ribbon on the ground where the signs were, they could brush against the rocks with no penalty using the NATC rule about riding on the ribbon as noted in my last post. Most of the complaints at the first 4 rounds seem to address this No Touching Sign Rule as a problem for riders and checkers alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I can find out this weekend. Somebody had to be complaining on how we let it slide. The rule itself makes sense. A split is off limits. Trouble is trialsmasters always put them at critical locations. These locations should have yellow ribbon so the rule itself changes to the ribbon rule ,not the split. You could say it goes back to poor trialsmanship. The best sections seem a mile wide with so many choices that the right one is almost impossible to find! BEST SECTIONS EVER, the ute cup where there would be a rock garden with a start gate and way in the distance you could see the other scorer at the end gate. That type of section took away all silly rules. Edited June 1, 2012 by lineaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramit Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 First it was fourstrokes are "overpriced nightmares created by government regulation" and now this. Maybe you oughta lay off the Jalapenos before bed time cause you seem to have a lota Nightmares. Unless Jalapenos is one of your native foods. Your starting to catch on.....too many rules be it from the Government or the NATC......its all B.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Speak your mind and I`ll get an answer. Tommorrow morning I`ll be driving by the NATC CEO`s home. I always welcome a little banter! He actually has quite the open mind. (A friend I started in trials got him started shortly after.) I heard rounds 3 and 4 had similiar problems with scorers that have always been fair to me! New rules and rules that should not change run a fine line in an old sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I have a friend who rode one of the senior classes in Ca and apparently was given a 5 when the exhaust from his 4T blew over a marker.....I'm not gonna comment directly because I was not there and did not see the exact way the section was marked. But, for our Nationals, we still use continuous ribbon on each side of the section, using cards only to mark splits for all the different classes. I agree, simpler is way better! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I seen this first I think last year in Euro trials championship , followed in WTC this year, so I suppose a FIM rule, which NATC follows closly having seen it in the NATC rule changes. . Ther have already been many charges over there of "o you toutched it" against many top riders. I do not neccessarily like or agree with it either, yet I suppose it all comes down to just how the section is marked. And as far as I am concerned, this rule may easily be overlooked in the spirit of the sport! This rule proves nothing! Now at the same time I say that, It may be a whole different deal when a pro rider plants his rear wheel on a marker halfway up a rock and defaces it, yet does not move it so it is barely there for the next guy to knock off! That sucks too so judgment required! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Yeah, nothing like driving all those miles to get an unexpected five! Had that happen two diferent years. Worst was in NY one year when I was the only one to clean a section. Newbie puncher did not understand what all the commotion was about, so punched another 5. I was so excited I did not notice till the end of the loop. I have double checked every punch ever since! Cope thought is was another across the pond deal, but we should have some common sense on these. Maybe I can steal a cold beer off Brian. I`ll reply back monday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny042 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I was at the CO rounds and think the marker rule is universally disliked (from what I can tell) - it changed the results of the pro class on Saturday and caused some difficulty for checkers (whose lives are hard enough.... THANKS FOR CHECKING!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yea, well the NATC rules apply to the NATC events(nationals). That is all good ! For the most part them guys know what they signed up for. Five em-all if you like, there may be some that need it! You see, as best I understand it, in that environment the markers are "GATES" anyway, minimum designated width set and such if possible, so for example if I am at a section where the gates are stuck on rocks, I would prefer folks keep their friggin tires off them! And the rest of themselves as well! Now, on the other hand, in a club event, there is no friggin way I am EVER going to the trouble to mark out sections like a national. It is not practicle and not gonna happen. You will get your tape, and split cards , and that is about it! Read them and don't knock them off! We ain't on NATC rules here, and it is up to the trialsmaster to decide how they want things to roll, and advise others accordingly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensley Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I saw a bad deal at sooner cup a kid rode through the end gate of a section with the checker holding up three fingers right before he got punched another rider called out that a split marker was on the ground no one saw the kid knock it to the ground yet he was given a five. The kid tried to protest the call but he was told by the trials master there are no protest. This was otherwise a great event. There were many national riders importers ect that could have explained to the trialsmaster he was wrong if he would just allowed a protest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the observer Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 for our Nationals, we still use continuous ribbon on each side of the section, using cards only to mark splits for all the different classes. I agree, simpler is way better! Steve the US Nationals are marked the same way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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