Gas Gas Pro Gearbox Reliability

[dadof2]

This is not having a go at Gas Gas its more of a survey for my own curiosity.

I was just having a think and I do not know of any Gas Gas pro above 125cc and over 3 years old that has NOT had to have its gearbox rebuilt. For some reasons 250s seem worst affected and I know 3 of these that have had to have he gearbox rebuilt twice before their fed up owners sold them

Am I alone in my observations or is gearbox failure as common as it seems to me?

Cheers

[lowbrow]

I had one of the first 280 Pro's in 2002 and I've owned five more since then and never had a gearbox problem. It is however unfortunate that the design of the selector mechanism is such that if you smack the gear lever hard enough the repair involves splitting the cases. The 250 is a clubman bike and perhaps the clubmen are more prone to smashing into rocks than the better riders?

[lineaway]

They are as bad as you think. The 300 is the worst. Mainly the kickstart. We have six 2004 300 in the club. Three of them have never had a problem. The other three have all had the clutch cover break. Shift shafts replaced numerous times and of course the kickstart gears. Even seen problems with newer bikes, but they have slowly gotten better.

On the plus side they ride very well, make great power and are light and inspire confidence to the rider.Reliable? No.

Edited July 16, 2012 by lineaway

[laser1]

All bikes have there own reliability quirks - if they didn't, the bike forum posts wouldn't be so full. Im happy to see that GG has modified the cases of the new bikes so that the gearbox can be serviced w/o splitting the cases.

If your breaking cases and KS pawls on GG's. Your not kicking it right. If you dont slap at the KS, you wont have any where near the number of problems.

[ham2]

On the plus side they ride very well, make great power and are light and inspire confidence to the rider.Reliable? No.

In a nut-shell

The KS pawl/gear teeth breaking free and floating around the gearbox is 'not uncommon' shall we say.

Edited July 16, 2012 by ham2

[dadof2]

Thaks for replies, it quite likely the case that up here with a lot of rocky sections riders frequently snag the gear lever. Having said that there seems to be quite a few gearbox problems that are not linked to selector or kickstart.

Cheers

[twinshocked]

All bikes have there own reliability quirks - if they didn't, the bike forum posts wouldn't be so full. Im happy to see that GG has modified the cases of the new bikes so that the gearbox can be serviced w/o splitting the cases.

If your breaking cases and KS pawls on GG's. Your not kicking it right. If you dont slap at the KS, you wont have any where near the number of problems.

Having to split cases ain't a "reliability quirk". Its a major PIA.

Yeah now the new Raga can be repaired without splitting cases. 10 years later-- thanks alot.

But its still the best selling bike. WHY?

Edited July 17, 2012 by twinshocked

[laser1]

With numbers being quoted in this thread - I guess were all just fools for buying such an inferior product. Or maybe there not anywhere near as bad as this thread indicates and are really nice bikes at a reasonable price. I dont claim there perfect. No bike is. But come on - 100% gearbox failure rate after 3 years and 50% failed twice? If that was the norm, GG would not survive - let alone prosper. The competition is way to close to allow for that - there really all great bikes nowadays.

[lineaway]

With numbers being quoted in this thread - I guess were all just fools for buying such an inferior product. Or maybe there not anywhere near as bad as this thread indicates and are really nice bikes at a reasonable price. I dont claim there perfect. No bike is. But come on - 100% gearbox failure rate after 3 years and 50% failed twice? If that was the norm, GG would not survive - let alone prosper. The competition is way to close to allow for that - there really all great bikes nowadays.

Just curious how many pro motors have you repaired since 2002? Do you remember the crap shift drums and all the plate changing on clutches the first few years? When was the last time you replaced a complete tranny on one? HMMM? It`s been about 90 days for me on a 2010. You just seem new or lucky.

[laser1]

2002 was a terrible year for the Pro. It was also a completely new model over ten years ago! In all, Ive done 3 pro trannys. (the kind with wheels) None were my bike. None failed again. Just sold my 2009 after three years - shifts great, never a problem. Never been called lucky or new either. I wish I was. Sorry to hear you had a failure on your 10.

[ham2]

Having to split cases ain't a "reliability quirk". Its a major PIA.

Fu**ing Aye,as they say in the U.S.Marines.

Yeah now the new Raga can be repaired without splitting cases. 10 years later-- thanks alot.

You've got to admit that making a resulting repair 'more accessible' and not curing the problem at source is a shocking admission

But its still the best selling bike. WHY?

As posted before..they ride really well

[ham2]

With numbers being quoted in this thread - I guess were all just fools for buying such an inferior product. Or maybe there not anywhere near as bad as this thread indicates and are really nice bikes at a reasonable price. I dont claim there perfect. No bike is. But come on - 100% gearbox failure rate after 3 years and 50% failed twice? If that was the norm, GG would not survive - let alone prosper. The competition is way to close to allow for that - there really all great bikes nowadays.

First things first ; ''I do love riding Gas Gas Pros''. I always ask the owner to start it for me when I cadge a ride,they think I'm just a dweeb/clutz but I just don't want the responsibility of knacking it.

I'm so paranoid on the owners behalf, that I now reckon I can hear the distinctive chipped gear rumble when a Pro is next to me.

I cadged a try on a Pro and while waiting in the section queue ,I rolled the bike backwards a few inches (without thinking,as you do) and selected 2nd gear...the owner and the next nearest Pro owner went ballistic on me..Lesson learned.

But if I think about the people I know who've had or have a Pro the KS /gearbox failure rate is about 60 %-ish .I can't name names to verify these claims (cos ultimately people have £ tied up and need to sell their bikes on) so I understand that you may easily dismiss my credibility.

[laser1]

Ham - I dont dismiss your statements regarding the KS failure % at all. The KS is weak under certain conditions and takes alot of abuse. GG should have made it beefier but theres not alot of room to do that. That said, there is no reason to experience a 60% failure rate if you take the preventative measure to engage the KS pawl before you lay into it. The KS pawl rotates down and is indexed outward simultaneously to mesh with the gear. It must have full tooth contact with the KS gear to have a full strength and a clash free start. The only way to ensure this happens is to take the slack out of the KS shaft and make sure your feel solid resistance of the pawl/gear before you power swing. Your 60% sounds to me like these folks must not be doing that. What I have also discovered is that Alot of people know how to KS the pro's but MANY dont know they still slap at it on occasion. Ive watched several people slap at it who swear they are not. Speaking of non scientific, I feel I can point out what riders will have problems and what riders wont by watching them. I often approach the slappers and try and tell them how and why the KS needs to be engaged 1st and this helps alot. The other problem can be related to KS lever position on the spline. For some reason, some people like to move the lever really far forward. This can also damage the pawl and stop mechanism.

So why put up with it? To me, I feel the KS issue is avoidable and after employing the above methods, me and many of my friends and club members have not experienced any further problems for the past few years. There are several threads on other forums that support that as well. I also spoke with several of my buddies yesterday regarding these issues as well as the bad news that there 2012 Ragas haven't left Spain yet and will be at least 2 months late! I fully expected at least one of them to jump ship. (The new Betas look pretty cool IMO and I like how they ride in general) Nobody is jumping though. They all LOVE how the bike rides. To them nothing compares. They love the pro motor, love the handling, love the suspension, Love the brakes, Love the look.

So my answer to the question posed above as to WHY GG is the best selling bike. My conclusion is - Love is blind.

[breagh]

If Gas Gas beefed up the box and it was 2kg heavier and 40mm wider would it sell?

No,everyone want's the best even at the expense of a bit reliability,though there hasn't been a bike built in years that 99% of joe public can even remotely ride to its potential.

What a shallow lot we are.

You'll find the riders that get problems are the ones that get problems with whatever bike they own.

[jse]

Ham - I dont dismiss your statements regarding the KS failure % at all. The KS is weak under certain conditions and takes alot of abuse. GG should have made it beefier but theres not alot of room to do that. That said, there is no reason to experience a 60% failure rate if you take the preventative measure to engage the KS pawl before you lay into it. The KS pawl rotates down and is indexed outward simultaneously to mesh with the gear. It must have full tooth contact with the KS gear to have a full strength and a clash free start. The only way to ensure this happens is to take the slack out of the KS shaft and make sure your feel solid resistance of the pawl/gear before you power swing. Your 60% sounds to me like these folks must not be doing that. What I have also discovered is that Alot of people know how to KS the pro's but MANY dont know they still slap at it on occasion. Ive watched several people slap at it who swear they are not. Speaking of non scientific, I feel I can point out what riders will have problems and what riders wont by watching them. I often approach the slappers and try and tell them how and why the KS needs to be engaged 1st and this helps alot. The other problem can be related to KS lever position on the spline. For some reason, some people like to move the lever really far forward. This can also damage the pawl and stop mechanism.

So why put up with it? To me, I feel the KS issue is avoidable and after employing the above methods, me and many of my friends and club members have not experienced any further problems for the past few years. There are several threads on other forums that support that as well. I also spoke with several of my buddies yesterday regarding these issues as well as the bad news that there 2012 Ragas haven't left Spain yet and will be at least 2 months late! I fully expected at least one of them to jump ship. (The new Betas look pretty cool IMO and I like how they ride in general) Nobody is jumping though. They all LOVE how the bike rides. To them nothing compares. They love the pro motor, love the handling, love the suspension, Love the brakes, Love the look.

So my answer to the question posed above as to WHY GG is the best selling bike. My conclusion is - Love is blind.

The kickstart issue is not new. It was not unusual for riders to snap the forged steel kickstart lever on TY350 Yamahas. The 350 was based on the big-bore MX engine with massive crank weights and flywheel, which also had a large steel band attached. Riders would jab at the levers and all that mass would resist turning and the lever would bear the brunt. Trials engines are quite different to start than the "normal" off-road engine due to overcoming the extra mass attached to the crank. I tell riders to start the bike like a Harley, don't jab at the lever, engage and use body weight to get things moving. We love the light weight bikes but they don't take kindly to misuse.

Jon