billyt Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) After many years on this forum and the prior Trails Action forum the many times posed question of "Which is the best oil to use in the gear box" has me thinking. After close to 35 years of riding trials I have never heard a rider state "took my gear box apart and the teeth where all wore out and galded" "my gears are all worn down" "my gears have too much play due to wear on them". The point I am trying to make is that how many gear trains did we have go bad due to choosing the wrong type of oil ? I would guess none? I guess what we are really asking when posing the question "Which is the best oil to use in the gear box" is, what oil works best for my clutch in the way of not grabbing, smoothness of action etc. The actual oil's gear performance is secondary or assumed with preference given to clutch performance. But are they exclusive, meaning a great oil for the clutch is a crap oil for the gears or vise versa! Are these oils we are choosing a compromise? When we visit a motorcycle shop to buy oil do we really read the label on the bottle with gear lubrication performance in mind or clutch performance in mind? If we choose a lubricating liquid purely based upon clutch performance, and to hell with GOOD or GREAT (just have basic lubrication) gear lubrication, would we know the results in short order? In other words some of us don't keep a bike that long for an issue like worn out gears to manifest itself during a bikes initial ownership? I know if we used the best type of oil for gear train lubrication alone it would make the clutch work like crap! With this being said what clutch lubricating liquids would we use if the clutch performance was the only criteria? I have some in mind, but would like to hear others thoughts on this matter! Dan, this is right up your alley mon ami! Your thoughts guys! Edited May 29, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylad Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Probably due to the increase in matrial and hardening quality which combined with better engineering allow tighter tolerances.Combine these features with low power output and low running hours of a trials bike. I would also guess oil quality has improved over the last years. End result reliability... Providing you change it regularly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 I myself keep thinking I will find an oil that lets my bike shift For the love of god why can't a 2010 model motorcycle find neutral just once with the engine running!! (Ya the 2012 and up Beta's shift well) Seems like every other bike other than trials bikes can do it It certainly is linked to the clutch as once the engine is off it shifts quite nicely So, I think if clutches were perfect and all bikes shifted smoothly no one would ask what oil is best Let you know what Bel Ray does for me LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Trials boxes just don't see the heat that causes wear and destruction - unless you trail ride them a lot. The Putoline light gear oils and Nano trans are opposite ends of the spectrum in costs but both look after the clutch and gears. ATF to my knowledge is not actually a gear oil as such but more of a hydraulic fluid. Why put that in you pride and joy when a gear oils looks after gears and the clutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I think the point I was trying to make: 1. When the question is posed about "what oil" they are really asking what is the best oil for my clutch. 2. I have never heard of gears going bad etc in a trials gear box due to the wrong type of oil selected. 3. If we purely choose a liquid for the clutch and the clutch alone so that the clutch performed at its best would the owner who used the best clutch type liquid ever experience a gear box problem in the time they own the bike? Would a problem even occur? 4. If we did choose to use a liquid that only satisfied the clutch's needs what would that liquid be? Edited May 30, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I understand what you are asking, and purely from a wear standpoint, I have no problems with fluids such as ATF, low vis and designed for clutches. Auto transmissions have many, also many gears in planetary systems. ATF has also been used in many manual transmissions and transfer cases over time. As many oils of various types will possibly contain certain friction modifiers and high stress additives, the viscosity is not the only potential issue. Some will prefer a quick clutch bite, others more progressive. Others have reported miricle cures with certail types of oils in certain bikes, yet no reports of wear issues reguardless of their content of additives. I heard the GasGas croud a number of years ago stating ATF causing clutch pack swelling and they were on the Autotrack II fluid, but I have not heard that lately, as it seems they are sensitive to pack thickness by design. Long story made short, go with what works in your bike design, or in some cases, take the time to do some refinement on your bike such as the Beta clutch mod post(which would apply to others such as Sherco) and tune to taste is my motto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) I use this oil, always have in either 2T or 4T Trials bikes. It one of the best out there. With that been said it still must be compromising to be able to perform all three functions, i.e. Clutch, Gearbox, Engine. Click on picture to read the writing at the bottom of the bottle. Edited May 31, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) "I myself keep thinking I will find an oil that lets my bike shift For the love of god why can't a 2010 model motorcycle find neutral just once with the engine running!!" Jeff, A wee tip, on trials bike you find neutral with your heel. You change gears with your foot and shift into neutral with your heel. Strange I know but that is a technique that I find works for me and some other people. BillyT Edited May 31, 2013 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 I use this oil, always have in either 2T or 4T Trials bikes. It one of the best out there. With that been said it still must be compromising to be able to perform all three functions, i.e. Clutch, Gearbox, Engine. Click on picture to read the writing at the bottom of the bottle. Obviousy it becomes a bit more difficult to properly lube certain 4T motors with combined motor/ gearbox vs separate items. However I seem to recall running my Hondas on 30wt with no issues back in the day, change it often. I think some of that stuff is overmarketed(spell overpriced), synthetics and all. The manufacturers provide basic recco to attend to. Not that the synthetic oils do not provide certain advantages in some applications, yet my basic findings over time remains the same. "The best oil is clean fresh oil" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 billyt, get a B40, perfect bike for you, seperate engine clutch and gearbox, oil geek paradise ! (and really easy to find neutral ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 billyt, get a B40, perfect bike for you, seperate engine clutch and gearbox, oil geek paradise ! (and really easy to find neutral ) Mine seemed to have more neutrals than gears 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted May 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) b40rt A dinna ken wit a B40 bike is. Edited May 31, 2013 by billyt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Hey Jeff: PM me and I have some info for you! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 b40rt A dinna ken wit a B40 bike is. Sometimes wish I didn't either ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 "I myself keep thinking I will find an oil that lets my bike shift For the love of god why can't a 2010 model motorcycle find neutral just once with the engine running!!" Jeff, A wee tip, on trials bike you find neutral with your heel. You change gears with your foot and shift into neutral with your heel. Strange I know but that is a technique that I find works for me and some other people. Thanks, Ya I will give that a try, I also need to measure the shim in the clutch, it's a small amount of drag that causes it It shifts by rev matching with no clutch rather well, but I am very hesitant to up shift in a section If I load the shifter and hit the kill switch it will shift as soon as the engine stops Clutch action after removing the glue is very good, some oils are better than others, the oil I had in there last tended to foam, a little comes out the breather, so I'm giving Bel ray a shot Then some Motorex then the heck with it, TMDT at that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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