[Nigel Dabster]

As much as I don't want to say it the maths are stacking up against our Doug, six rounds left and he's 24 points down on Raga, fuji is 21.

Its surely a 2 way thing between the top two Spaniards now isn't it?

When (if ever) has there been a Spanish top 5 in the WTC???

End of an era hastened by the poor performance of the 4rt?

Where would Doug Fuji and Frexia be if they were 315 mounted?

[bikespace]

HondaRS, on Jun 26 2005, 05:17 PM, said:

Wonder how well Sherco would have done if thier works riders had been riding 4 strokes?

Looks to me like Sherco made the right decision then.
Honda bravely jumped in early when they could have been testing their 4rT fully all this year.
Scottish was a good learning experience for Sherco, without too much egg on the face if things go wrong. It's the hardest endurance trial in the world after all.
Both of the bikes are good. I would guess at this point that neither of them are quite good enough to assist the best in the world to lift the title.
I think Sherco have played fairly safe and it's worked out better (at the moment).

[DGShannon]

bikespace, on Jun 26 2005, 05:51 PM, said:

Honda bravely jumped in early when they could have been testing their 4rT fully all this year.

What do you think they have been doing by actually riding it in competition?

[Cota Kid]

Dabster do you talk rubbish just to be controversial or what?
Six rounds remaining is still a lot of points to score and this weekend has proven events can turn dramatically. It sounds like France was very much an indoor style round, which suits Raga's and the other Spanish riders styles. The remaining rounds may not suit them.

You must be the only person who thinks the performance of the 4RT has been poor. Which to be frank is absolute rubbish! If anything the 4RT has more than surprised the public and has been proven to be able to compete against the proven 2 strokes, even with such a weight disadvantage.

We will never know where Doug, Fuji and Freixa would be on 315's because they don't make them anymore. Its like asking where would Cabestany be on a 4 stroke Sherco or Raga if Gas Gas actually got round to making one.

I can only assume the Dabster has been out on in the sun to long. This WTC will go to the final round.

She is singing....................rubbish. She hasn't even started to warm up.

Remember Liverpool 3 - 0 down in the Champions League Final. It is all still to play for.

Go on Doug.

This post has been edited by Cota Kid: 26 June 2005 - 06:27 PM

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

Well said Cota, rat's and sinking ship come to mind, dry your eyes and move on!! Doug will and probably all ready has.

All the best with the new Baby Doug, I can't say what it must be like to win a world round or even the championship, but a new baby will be right up there.

[PHYSCO]

r2w trials , be a paitriotic dougie fan!!!!.if you live in the uk support your own,after all dougie has done for the sport in the uk!!,SHAME ON YOU.THE KING IS DEAD,LONG LIVE THE KING!!!!!!!

[Nigel Dabster]

Cota Kid, on Jun 26 2005, 07:05 PM, said:

Dabster do you talk rubbish just to be controversial  or what?
Six rounds remaining is still a lot of points to score and this weekend has proven events can turn dramatically. It sounds like France was very much an indoor style round, which suits Raga's and the other Spanish riders styles.  The remaining rounds may not suit them.

You must be the only person who thinks the performance of the 4RT has been poor. Which to be frank is absolute rubbish! If anything the 4RT has more than surprised the public and has been proven to be able to compete against the proven 2 strokes, even with such a weight disadvantage.

We will never know where Doug, Fuji and Freixa would be on 315's because they don't make them anymore. Its like asking where would Cabestany be on a 4 stroke Sherco or Raga if Gas Gas actually got round to making one.

I can only assume the Dabster has been out on in the sun to long. This WTC will go to the final round.

She is singing....................rubbish. She hasn't even started to warm up.

Remember Liverpool 3 - 0 down in the Champions League Final. It is all still to play for.

Go on Doug.

Lets say doug wins all the remaining rounds, I sincerely hope he does, Raga can finish second in 4 3rd and 4th in the others and still take the title, it just looks like a mountain to climb on a bike which on the last two days is vulnerable. Don't get me wrong I think the bike has some great points but a championship winning bike this year, doubt it. Don't think any style of section has ever been a disadvantage before to Doug, he won the indoors plenty of times on the 315. Did you think the 4rt was good indoors this year? Has freixa and Fuji performed better or worse outdoors on the 4rt? The weight disadvantage, according to the figures isn't that bad is it?

Its not the same as caby on a 4t because he had the choice (in theory), and Gas gas don't have a 4t whereas montesa did have a proven wtc winning machine, and dumped it.

This wtc will not go to the final round, not now, unless its a Cabestany raga battle but I hope I'm completely wrong and they both have some really bad results and I am totally incorrect, Doug comes back and wins the eighth.
It would have shut the Spanish up completely as with 8 Doug would have been the best ever on paper without any question.

Liverpool only had to put the ball in the net, doug has a bit more to do he is 24-0 down.

This post has been edited by Nigel Dabster: 26 June 2005 - 07:59 PM

[Cota Kid]

So Dougs riding style, the style of a 7 times consecutive world champion, doesn't excite you.
Doug is a true sporting legend. If you read the Dougie Lampkin Press Report for France Day 2 and realise the level of pain he has put himself through then you realise what true grit and determinatio he has. Lesser riders would have simply given up not Doug. Reminds me of Grimbo at Hawkstone Park when he suffered an extremely bad knee injury but percivered through extreme pain to finish.

Instead of knocking Doug we should all be behind him 110%. He is still capable of winning this WTC. I might regret what I'm about to say but a good bit of rain at Hawkstone Park wouldn't do any harm. Although it seems a bit biased that Britain only gets the one day.

[Nigel Dabster]

Who is knocking Doug, not me he is the greatest of all time in my eyes its just a shame that when he didn't need the injury he got it. Was it the bike that wasn't as pwerful that made him crash?
I unlike R2w could watch him all day and night he is the best, as Steve Saunders said "he is the best because he does everything better than everyone else and there is no weakness in his riding" so whats changed?

[Cota Kid]

Liverpool ( and I'm not a supporter) had to put the ball in the net 3 times to take it to extra time. At half time and 3-0 down the odds were 250 - 1 for them to do it. Will you give me 250 - 1 for Doug to take the title?

I agree that the 4RT isn't the best of bikes indoors but you cannot compare it to the days when Doug was riding a 315. But who is currently leading the manufacturers WTC?

Also by winning 7 consecutive World Titles Doug has nothing to prove. He has already surpassed Jordi Tarres. An eighth title would be the icing on the cake.

Doug is still one hell of a force to be reckoned with.

[neonsurge]

r2wtrials, on Jun 26 2005, 08:44 PM, said:

Cota Kid... i know we all have our prefered make of bike but even you have to admit that the 4rt that they ride in wtc is so far removed from the bike that we can buy that almost the only simular part is the stickers.

But the same's true of all the factory bikes, isn't it? Using factory machines a basis for comparing showroom models will never prove anything.

HRC-Montesa had no choice but to develop the 4RT in competition. Since the different engine and subsequent handling characteristics of the 315 and 4RT require an adjustment of riding style it would be unreasonable (and slow the development process considerably) to have the factory riders on the 2-stroke in competitions and switch to testing the 4-stroke the next day.

I think that there's a good reason why Cabestany and Jarvis aren't on the 3.2: Sherco know that it'd be no match for their own highly-developed 2.9 in world-level competition let alone GasGas, Beta and the others and aren't going to put their top factory riders onto it until the FIM tell them that they have to. Montesa had a completely different problem. Honda decided that they'd be stopping production of ALL 2-stroke engines, regardless of the application so the decision to drop the 315 and put all of their efforts into the 4RT was made for them.

[Cota Kid]

Another interesting point. If the bikes had gone 4 stroke for the 2005 season as they were supposed to do, who would be leading the WTC?

[Nigel Dabster]

Cota Kid, on Jun 26 2005, 09:10 PM, said:

Liverpool ( and I'm not a supporter) had to put the ball in the net 3 times to take it to extra time. At half time and 3-0 down the odds were 250 - 1 for them to do it. Will you give me 250 - 1 for Doug to take the title?

I agree that the 4RT isn't the best of bikes indoors but you cannot compare it to the days when Doug was riding a 315. But who is currently leading the manufacturers WTC?

Also by winning 7 consecutive World Titles Doug has nothing to prove. He has already surpassed Jordi Tarres. An eighth title would be the icing on the cake.

Doug is still one hell of a force to be reckoned with.

I will give you 500 to 1.

(Terms and conditions apply but the money will go from me should doug win)

You obviously didn't see the Spanish version of the greatest riders of all time league table then, Doug was second on some strange scoring system.

This post has been edited by Nigel Dabster: 26 June 2005 - 08:19 PM

[Nigel Dabster]

Cota Kid, on Jun 26 2005, 09:14 PM, said:

Another interesting point. If the bikes had gone 4  stroke for the 2005 season as they were supposed to do, who would be leading the WTC?


We will never know where Doug, Fuji and Freixa would be on 315's because they don't make them anymore. Its like asking where would Cabestany be on a 4 stroke Sherco or Raga if Gas Gas actually got round to making one.

We will never know will we?

[Jools]

Hawkstone 98, anyone remember Dougie's last lap when it started raining? He dropped 4 and colomer had the second best lap score of 35!

He has been so far ahead of everyone else over the years - unbeleivably consistant, determined.

No doubt about it, he has been unlucky this year with injury and having to develop that bike against the proven factory bikes from GasGas, Sherco etc. must be difficult.

It would be interesting though if all the riders were on thumpers.
Honda have been brave, by the time the other manufactures bring their bikes out, the monts will be years ahead.
In a few years, we will be surprised at what the 4 stroke can do. They're the way to go!
Yes, Tarres did win 7 world tittles, but not consistantly!