48 replies to this topic

[Woody]

I agree 100% it should be the pinnacle of trials riding for the best in the world, the elite. The problem with it now, as I see it, is that it doesn't test the full range of their skills as it should. Infinitely varied conditions from mud, snow, ice, cambered climbs, root infested climbes etc. etc. It's just becoming the same almost every round. Rev and splat. Doesn't make any difference if the sections are made of rock, concrete, wooden crates, sleepers or whatever, it's the same technique over and over. No variance and it favours smaller lighter riders. Even the indoors from a few years ago managed to vary sections a bit but now they just use the same ones over and over. And I've never been an indoors fan, even when Dougie was winning it. I've nothing but admiration for their skill but it doesn't hold much interest for me really, certainly don't go out of my way to watch it.

Same with outdoors. Last time I went to Hawstone, again the skill of the riders was awesome, I've no argument there, but the sections were so hard that if riders were marked properly they would have been given fives more often than not, and several times per section too. I just left thinking what's the point. There are rules in place but they are ignored. Bit like a golfer scooping up the ball and balancing it on the face of his wedge, walking from the tee, dropping it in the hole and claiming a hole in one. New technique, very clever but outside the rules.

It seems the sport is being bottled up and promoted in a specific way now and I don't think it is for the better - but that is just a personal opinion. Ultimately it makes not one jot of a difference to my life what they do with WTC, I just think it is a shame what it is turning into. You only have to look at the once great RAC rally to see what happens when the money men get their hands on things - not allowed to run a forest stage rally in November anymore as it is too wet and there is too much mud and ice about. We want a nice clean event please so if you don't run it July you can't run it anymore in the WRC. Just about sums things up really.

So I feel that for as long as sections are promoted in this way the lady can indeed stop singing. The arena type sections will favour the Spanish riders and the trophy will head off there. But I hope I am wrong as even if my interest in WTC is on a downward spiral I still want a British rider to win it.

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

At this time the majority of trials spectators are in fact trials riders or connected in some way, I agree with Woody, the indoor series is for the trick stuff, let the outdoor series be just that!! an outdoor series, if trials like Duluth can take more marks and be less dangerous, then doesn't it make sense to use that type of section.

I was jazzed watching Duluth ran round like a kid following the top riders in the creek and natural sections, the two man made I never bothered watching, one I don't think was cleaned all day, and only one or two riders got through the thing, the end result of man made outdoors will be even less riders competing and a series which will deter even the keenest followers from attending, whets the point of going to an event when you have seen one you have seen them all.

When an ex world champ says they wouldn't walk to the end of the street to go see one nower days, just about sums the job up.

[t-shock 250]

Well said Woody, any good clerk of course could set sections to take marks off even Dougie without 10ft steps, leave the manufactured sections at home for the WTC.
Just thinking.......Does the fact that Tarres lost his title then regained it make him better than Dougie?

[neonsurge]

From a totally non-authoritative perspective it occurs to me that simply running the outdoor WTC to no stop rules would go a long way to resolving the currently perceived "problems". No stopping would automatically preclude the use of most indoor style sections because they'd be simply impossible and it would encourage more creative section design.

[Woody]

I'd agree that it is almost impossible to have true no-stop at WTC now. The riders skill and the fact that the bikes are made to be danced about would make it an observing nightmare to decide if true no-stop forward motion was maintained - especially when they try and hop the front and back wheels 'on the move'. Stationary hopping or hopping sideways on the back wheel to get out of trouble is a favourite way of diguising the fact that forward motion is lost but the bike is still perceived to be moving - tough to call in the cauldron of WTC observing. On the old twinshocks this couldn't be done of course so that problem didn't arise, but you only have to see how the top guys get themselves out of trouble in the SSDT to see how they get around proper no-stop.

I certainly agree that the skill shown in moving a bike around by hop and bop trick riding is amazing but I think it makes the gap between the best and the rest even bigger. Time limits can't work at club level and therefore you'd have two very different sets of rules for championships and the rest. Doesn't bother me but the consensus is that this is no good for bringing on future WTC contenders as they need to constantly ride to one set of rules. Personally I think if they are good enough they can ride any way, because they just are that good.

I favour the old style no-stop as it meant a rider had to think much more about a section and pick the line and try and stay on it. If you lost it and wandered off line it would cost marks to get back on it as you couldn't stop, recover and then go again as many times as necessary, it had to be right first time as you only had one chance.

I still think that if they set the rules as they are now (ie stop but no sideways hopping or reversing) and observed them properly the sections wouldn't have to be so severe. That's two trials in a row Doug has had nasty crashes and I don't put it down to him taking extra risks due to an uncompetitive bike - he was leading the championship until last week and the works 4RT has won a few rounds this year. I think it was only a matter of time before someone crashed heavily and unfortunately it was Dougie and the timing of it could well cost him any chance of the championship now. And that's why I think she will have stopped singing soon as he will struggle to pull those marks back now if the sections continue to be indoor style. But I hope so much that he can. And Hawstone if it p****s it down is a good place to start.

[neonsurge]

OK, I understand what you're saying about the problems with observing no stop rules at world level but if sections continue to get bigger and scarier and bikes lighter and more powerful, how long before we have a situation where every event includes sections where failure virtually guarantees serious injury?

[Nigel Dabster]

Funnily enough the Italian Euro round, for the Saturday at least, had it all, there was a coupl of stream sections, one arena type near the start, a few rocky gulleys, logs, a muddy section straight from the midlands, roots, and bigish steps as well. A bit like Hawkstone really. So maybe next week the WTC won't be the circus at all, there does need to be the spectacular stuff but I agree man made should not be overplayed, but if you need the paddock where are they going to get both at every round?

[TooFastTim]

That's what I've been thinking Dabster. It's difficult to say from afar but I get the impression that the W/C rounds are all much of a muchness with too much emphasis on the spectacular splatter type sections. Granted they are a part of the sport at that level, but IMO there isn't enough variety. And the lack of variety is playing into the Spaniards hands.

Nothing wrong with some slippery tree roots here and there.

[Nigel Dabster]

Sad though it is Raga leads by 17 with 4 rounds remaining, looks like a Double World Champ for him for 2005 to me.

[Nigel Dabster]

Not so sure now, but Doug still has a mountain to climb, my thoughts are that Raga's success depends more on what type of sections more than anything else will determine the outcome.

[Cota Kid]

Doug's second lap was as good as I've seen him rider ever, just awesome. One thing that was truly evident is that, in those conditions, the 4RT is as competetive as the 2 strokes.
Its a big pity the trial was only the one day.

[Nigel Dabster]

Pretty much done and dusted if Raga puts in a decent performance on Sunday 4th.
Or if he wants to drag it out he could win with a 10th and a 6th.
More interesting will be the runner up battle lets Hope its doug as two seconds and seven Firsts is some achievement.

[Nigel Dabster]

Done and dusted.

Now where's Cota kid?

[Andy]

My take on Germany...

One of the best rounds of the season. Certainly the most varied course I've seen this year (though I missed the initial rounds). Very well organised although not great for the press following the Trial being such a long loop and the observing was tougher than I've ever seen at any Trial.

My take on some of the riders -

Freixa - VERY unlucky. Rode the best I've ever seen him ride. He deserved the win.

Dabill - Awesome debut. That guy is going places. Grit, determination, no fear and he believes in himself, but he's not cocky with it.

Raga - Can't take it away from the guy. There was a lot of pressure on him this weekend - especially on one so young, but he kept his cool and came up with the goods.

Michael Brown - First class ride on Sunday. Another one with potential. His minder's a bit mental though

Sam Haslam - Quiet, gets on with the job and a great result for him.

Dougie - One day I'll figure out why he leaves himself with uphill struggles and then delivers when the pressure is really on.

One that nobody has mentioned is Grimbo. Awesome second lap on Sunday. 13 dropped for the lap to equal Cabestany and Dougie on the day. More cleans than Cabestany too which I doubt Cabestany was happy with as it pushed him down a place.

Fajardo - Hmmm.... Just how many minders does a guy need compared to how many he's allowed?????

[Nigel Dabster]

Thanks Andy this is just the stuff that TMX should be telling us, but never do.