[Nigel Dabster]

Dani oliveras is 17, his birthday is in November when he will be 18. Having won the youthWTC for Gas Gas he decided to ride the junior WTC at Hawkstone. Who gave him permission to do that? You are supposed to be 18 to compete and he clearly is not.

Patrick Smage (USA) apparently asked if he could ride in the Youth wtc in the Duluth round and was told, "rules are rules, no".

Alexz Wigg asked if he could do the same and ride at Hawkstone in the Youth WTC, coincidentally his birthday is exactly the same as Dani's only he is 2 years younger, he was told "rules are rules, no".

Is that fair?

[Kinell]

Nigel Dabster, on Aug 3 2005, 04:15 PM, said:

Is that fair?

If correct, definitely not...

[City Trials]

Does Dani belong in the Junior Class? From his first attempt, one would say yes.

Were rules altered for Dani to ride Junior class? Under the current rules (???), one would say yes.

Was this fair? You bet it isn't.

FIM.... take hard look at what you did with allowing Dani to move up a class without being old enough. You opened a can of worms.

[Andy]

I've just been through the rules and dispensations to ride out of class due to winning are not mentioned. All they say is:

052.7.1.1 Age of riders

Trial World Championship: 18 years old and holders of a valid driver’s licence.

FIM Junior Trial World Cup: Men between 18 and 21 years old, Women from 18 years old and holders of a valid driver’s licence. Riders more than 21 years of age may ride in this class but will no be eligible for awards or Championship points.

FIM Youth Trial Cup 125cc: between 16 and 18 years old and holders of a valid driver’s licence.

052.7.1.2 Riders' Licences

Riders must be holders of a valid FIM World Championship licence to participate in the Trial World Championship and a World Championship, Continental Championship or International licence to participate in the FIM Junior Trial World Cup or the FIM Youth Trial Cup 125cc.

052.7.2 Entries

Entries must be open at least two months prior to the meeting.

If entries are to be limited, the maximum number to be accepted and the method of selection must be stated in the Supplementary Regulations (SR), following approval by the CTR.

Riders can enter for each or all events counting for the Trial World Championship, FIM Junior Trial World Cup and FIM Youth Trial Cup 125cc. However only male riders aged over 18 and less than 21 years old (or who will be 21 years old during the year of the event), women aged more than 18 years old and who have not finished in the top 15 in the final classification of the Trial World Championship in the last three years will be accepted to participate in the FIM Junior Trial World Cup. The winner of the FIM Junior Trial World Cup cannot participate in it the following year. Only riders aged over 16 years old and less than 18 years old (or who will be 18 years old during the year of the event) will be accepted to participate in the FIM Youth Trial Cup 125cc.

I'm not against it per se and it does make sense to advance to the next level as he clearly deserves it, but they should clearly state advancement is permitted in the case of being an unbeatable champion to avoid ambiguity.

[Nigel Dabster]

I don't see any reason why Oliveras cannot ride in the Junior, although in the rules he has to stick with the 125cc as he isn't 18 yet. But by the same generality if Alexz or anyone else for that matter is European champ surely an upgradeshould be possible too?
The degree of rule bending is dependent on your viewpoint, but Oliveras participating in the Junior wtc is against the rules as detailed above, period.

[Jools]

Just a thought....

James Dabill won the Junior WC and is now allowed to be promoted to the full world class.
Oliveras won the junior 125 class, so therefore allowed to be promoted to the junior!?

[Andy]

Jools, on Aug 3 2005, 08:19 PM, said:

James Dabill won the Junior WC and is now allowed to be promoted to the full world class.
Oliveras won the junior 125 class, so therefore allowed to be promoted to the junior!?

Dabill was born 17/4/86 so is over 18 and automatically eligible for the World Class "Trial World Championship: 18 years old and holders of a valid driver’s licence."

Oliveras was born 1/11/87 which makes him 17. To ride in the Junior Class you must be 18 and he's not that till November. "FIM Junior Trial World Cup: Men between 18 and 21 years old"

I'm not saying it's wrong for him to ride Junior Class as I'm all for pushing these lads and I think he'll go far. He's worked hard to deserve his "promotion", but as the topic says - rules are rules and I can understand the grievances posted. I'm just posting the facts!

[PHYSCO]

just wait for young "WIGGY", trust me.forget the rules just wait!!!!!!.for the english "youngsters",well done to you all you certainly kicked some a***!!!.

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

[Q] Andy's post

"18 years old (or who will be 18 years old during the year of the event)"

[Q] Dabster's post "Dani oliveras is 17, his birthday is in November when he will be 18."

Doesn't Dani meet the criteria due to the fact he will be 18 during the year of the event ?

[Andy]

ishy, on Aug 3 2005, 08:34 PM, said:

[Q] Andy's post

"18 years old (or who will be 18 years old during the year of the event)"

[Q] Dabster's post "Dani oliveras is 17, his birthday is in November when he will be 18."

Doesn't Dani meet the criteria due to the fact he will be 18 during the year of the event ?

No, the rules (cut and pasted) say "Only riders aged over 16 years old and less than 18 years old (or who will be 18 years old during the year of the event) will be accepted to participate in the FIM Youth Trial Cup 125cc.". Nowhere do they mention that those under 18 are permitted to ride in the Junior Cup.

[City Trials]

Nevermind gossip, I'll get to the bottom of this. I will have a opinion story on this subject real soon.

This post has been edited by City Trials: 03 August 2005 - 10:05 PM

[neonsurge]

Just read the official FIM response on the front page and now I'm more confused. If the new rules allowed Oliveras ro ride, why couldn't Wiggy and the others? Who's responsibility was it to make entry acceptance decisions and were they aware of the rule changes? Was it the "holder of a valid drivers' license" requirement that was a stopper?

No axe to grind here, just interested although if there's a communication problem somewhere it needs to be resolved to prevent problems like this in the future.

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

A positive side to Dani, riding the junior class for the remainder of the season, is that it gives other lads a chance to get a win or on the podium,
as shown in the Hawkstone results.

Physco, is right, the young riders will get their chance soon enough, some countries acquiring a valid drivers license can be done at a younger age, but all world championship classes require this.

All press releases on rule changes etc are posted on the FIM site, who's responsibility is it to keep up to date on those changes ?

[neonsurge]

Right, now that all the handbag-swinging is out of the way, in the end it comes down to whether the rider holds a valid national driving license, right? And it's possible to get your bike license at 16 in Spain? I honestly thought that Alexz is 17 'cos he's such a big lad.

[Nigel Dabster]

Alexz is 15 currently, as is Patrick I think. Alexz is 16 in november so will not get a chance to ride Youth wtc till next year.