gizza5 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 So the start to 2015 and congratulations on Toni Bou on becoming the 2015 WTC again, Ok a tongue in cheek comment, but you wouldn't bet against him? So will there be a WTC in 2020 only 5 years away, but who would bet on that? Discussions have been on here for several years now and the sport of trials has changed so much, with the demise of riders, big factory trucks, demands of the media with IT infrastructure, etc. etc. and with so few riders in the top class is it viable anymore? You could argue that other motor sports have a selective entry in the top class with a support class making the event providing a stepping stone for the riders or drivers, but does this in reality work in trials and how many riders will we have in 2015 riding against Toni Bou? Realistically beyond the top 3 or 4 in the World to make money is difficult, so a lot of riders are self funding to compete at this level? For any organiser with the requirements that are needed there is no long queue to join to run a World Round? So here is my thought and by no means it is a solution, but this is a forum and open to discussion? Most of the riders are European with the exception of a few, yes nice to go to Japan and America, but as said outside the top 3 you are digging deep to fund this trip? So maybe we keep the WTC in Europe I do have a Globe and realise that the World is bigger, but it eliminates a huge cost, secondly all the European Countries can run there respective Championships, but allocate one of their rounds to be part of the WTC and strip away most of the crap that isn't needed? So the young riders if this was adopted can attend more if not all rounds and maybe we will get beyond 2020? Just a thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 There will always be a round in Japan as long as the mighty Honda have a presence in the Championship. There is no doubt major change is necessary, but having recently received the list of officials in the Trial Commission for 2015, it's the same old names. Nothing will change until they get rid of the freeloaders, dead wood and those who are closed to any ideas except their own. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul w Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 just look to MotoGP and WSB and to some extent BSB - formats for televised events only? will the WTC get the TV audiences? Do the factories still need this level of competition for development? (a club bike is a long way from a WTC bike) Andy you're bang right with your call on the 'old gaurd', but who will step up to the mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 You are right Andy, but for a business to survive it has to be bigger than one person or Company so maybe it is up to the European factory's to take a stance and not turn up to Japan? How much money do Honda actually contribute to the running of the WTC series, I have no idea? Road Racing is huge with massive sponsors and an even bigger following and audience with every boy racer with his Rice Rocket on our roads wanting to be the next Rossi, hence the TV Company's wanting to broadcast it, even Mr Honda can see the value in that? Honda want to be World Champions in every discipline where a Honda motor is used whether that be motorcycling, power boat racing, car racing and if lawn mower racing was big enough they would probably want part of that too? As you said Andy us minions can't change it nor the dead wood involved running it at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 So Far remote from my trials world ( and most of us ) do I actually care ? ? ? Not in the slightest !!. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzpete Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 If the championship was held in Europe would it not be a European Championship. I don't know how much you know Gizza5 but the cost to compete in a world round is just ridiculous. Excluding travel the kiwis have to pay $100 for our federation licence, $250 per event FIM licence, $550 insurance required to get your fim licence per event or $900------450gb pounds. That gets you the paperwork so you can enter, hire/buy a bike,travel, accommodation ect . Don't forget if you have a minder double the paperwork cost. You then turn up to the Spanish world round and day one time is so tight you just take 5s from section 4 on lap 3 just to get a finish. happy kiwis. I would love to know what the costs are for you guys. Now for media, dear FIM where is the reviews on DVD this year. Love to see them, especially trials des nations but no nothing available. So I agree gizza5 something needs to be done, and I ask why no reviews, why insurance costs are the same for trials as for moto gp, mx, isle of man tt, surly the risk is less. Why is the FIM licence so much. Do the FIM realise the 125 class has the lowest entries last year it has ever had and thats the future of the world rounds. I have no answers but reducing the cost to compete would be a good starting point. Remember the world rounds going to Aussie or the USA gives riders from the host nations a chance to compete at a world round, or at least see the top guys ride Happy new year and keep your feet up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Turbo,it is remote now but back in the 80s it wasn't when most decent riders could give rounds a bash. Also most riders could relate to the sections. You can't turn the clock back but I feel technology has amplified the difference in riding abilities. At every level too (4/5 routes in a club trial?). Needs a re think? Edited January 1, 2015 by breagh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Its not just "technology" although that does play a part. i spoke with a rider on boxing day who said he won a national trial (fairly tough one with a few good riders) after 18 pints at a wedding the day before.(70's or 80's) Whilst im not saying that would be impossible, much less likely. I think we easily forget that beginners are much the same as they ever were, even with a 2015 bike they probably cant do any more than when most of us first started? But the guys at the top get better year on year on year. So as stated above even some club trials have 4 routes. Whilst the wtc diminishes the top route is getting less well supported the recent changes of 125 till 18 no longer applying and the junior wtc losing any kind of real value by a name change and total lack of support by factories fim etc and also the change to no stop have all worked against maintaining numbers in the top route. My guess is they will be lucky to get 12 at some rounds which is ridiculous. until there is a big shake up whether it be rules or start money or classes or less rounds im not sure but as Gizza says it might not be here at all in 2020.....unless someone does something soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Japan cant even be bothered to field a team in the TDN- they dont deserve a world round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I don't know how much you know Gizza5 but the cost to compete in a world round is just ridiculous.I think Pete that is my point I do know? And I feel for the guys liike yourselves in New Zealand, Australia, America, Japan the list can go on, but although the cost for one rider and minder to travel from New Zealand to Europe is high then the maths to move the whole World circuit to a round in New Zealand with all the riders and minders etc. etc. is probably breaking the sport.Back when Martin won the World Championship the rounds were in Europe, due to the fact most riders who competed lived there and the cost would have been prohibitive to go to the places mentioned above yes the sport has changed, but the facts still remain the same here in 2015? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Japan cant even be bothered to field a team in the TDN- they dont deserve a world round Absolutely, they shouldnt get a world round but im assuming the fim delegates enjoy the long trip? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think Pete that is my point I do know? And I feel for the guys liike yourselves in New Zealand, Australia, America, Japan the list can go on, but although the cost for one rider and minder to travel from New Zealand to Europe is high then the maths to move the whole World circuit to a round in New Zealand with all the riders and minders etc. etc. is probably breaking the sport. Back when Martin won the World Championship the rounds were in Europe, due to the fact most riders who competed lived there and the cost would have been prohibitive to go to the places mentioned above yes the sport has changed, but the facts still remain the same here in 2015? With dhl as a partner (last year) why didnt the fim do something about reducing the cost of travel, or even work out a deal for airtarvel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Japan cant even be bothered to field a team in the TDN- they dont deserve a world round It's not a case of "can't be bothered". I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it's a political situation. I'm sure Fuji, Kuroyama, Ogawa brothers etc would love to compete. I should also point out not all of the Commission are dead wood or freeloaders. There are a (small) number who work hard, are enthusiastic and are keen for change, but the old challenges remain... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Japan cant even be bothered to field a team in the TDN- they dont deserve a world round Absolutely, they shouldnt get a world round but im assuming the fim delegates enjoy the long trip? I disagree. Japan is one of the few world rounds where we see wild card riders. As breagh has pointed out, it used to be the norm that the good national riders of any country would enter their own world round. This is now very rarely the case in most countries. Are the costs today higher in real terms than they were in the 70s or 80s? I don't know. Part of the issue may not be just the lack of money outside the top few riders, but the presence of real money & investment in support amongst the elite. I imagine Monster Energy sponsorship is worth somewhat more than Hammonds Sauce! If it requires a well equipped truck, mechanic, minder(s), team manager, catering, etc to be competitive then it is very difficult to break into this elite group. So a few well funded riders have all the support to train, practice & ride full time which amplifies the difference. Sections are then set out to challenge this elite group and are all but impossible for good national riders. I think this may be one factor explaining the complete stagnation in the top 5/6 riders in the world. Look how the likes of Brown & Wigg (guys that have won BTC & SSDT) have struggled at some world rounds. Nobody new has broken into this elite group for a good number of years and this in itself makes the championship less interesting. Edited January 2, 2015 by neils on wheels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 It's not a case of "can't be bothered". I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it's a political situation. I'm sure Fuji, Kuroyama, Ogawa brothers etc would love to compete. I should also point out not all of the Commission are dead wood or freeloaders. There are a (small) number who work hard, are enthusiastic and are keen for change, but the old challenges remain... Hi, Sadly the REAL cause of the problem lies far closer to the average rider in the average club trial than anyone will admit - you see the only reason that all the 'old guard' are still in control is that most people don't bother to get involved in any way with the organisation of the sport at local centre level, so all the old cronies who are willing to go to boring monthly meetings, elect themselves to the various national committees, where the same old cronies willing to attend national meetings vote themselves into international positions - or are happy to vote somebody willing to do the 'work' just so that they won't have to.............and the result is quite literally demonstrated in the posts above. And I am not just quoting a theory - I have sat on club committees, then attended centre meetings, been elected to national forums and then represented the sport on international forums - so don't just moan about the old guard unless you are prepared to put some probably very boring time in yourself and then become part of the 'new' guard. The worst element I now see emerging is the modern attitude: "Well I don't mind paying more for my rides, so you find some observers and pay them.........." But at the end of the day, whatever you do - enjoy yourself - it's meant to be for relaxation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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