18 replies to this topic

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

Interesting point raised in the ACU forum report.

[Q]• Experience at World rounds tended to indicate that even those riders who were not necessarily at the top end of results felt greatly disadvantaged if they were not in the same position as others regarding the number of assistants they had. Once Dougie Lampkin & Adam Raga ended up with 3 – 4 people circulating with them – lots of others are now trying to achieve the same, regardless of ability/ results.[Q]

So why is it allowed then ?

Many think sections are too difficult/dangerous, but only a few have the security of numerous bodies to catch for them, would the top riders ask for eased sections if no other person was allowed in a section other than the rider?

[bikespace]

I think it's very hard to argue against the safety of allowing them in the section. I know what you mean - stop the minders and the sections will have to be easier, but what happens when one organiser doesn't quite toe the party line, and a rider does some serious injury. I'm sure the FIM would get it in the neck for cutting down what is essentially a safety net, rightly or wrongly.

By the way, I missed the ACU forum report, is it on here somewhere?

[Outlaw Dave]

Try looking at the front page Gaz !!!!

[bikespace]

Doh!!!

I usually come in here direct after getting an email for an updated topic.


Where's that dunce smilie gone?

[Andy]

Front page news, BS.

The thing that annoyed me this year was one Jeroni Fajardo. The riders are permitted, within the corridor (the outer perimeter of tape), their minder, their mechanic and one person in a factory team bib.

Within the section, they are permitted their minder and sometimes the mechanic if it's particularly tough or the minder can't make the next big step in time to catch. That's fair enough.

What is totally unfair is Fajardo having an additional minder in the corridor - firstly riding in a Press bib and, after being reported to the FIM (not by me) and having the bib taken off him, entering the corridor with no bib at all and working on Fajardo's bike - not at one World round, but at two that I saw.

The FIM took NO action against either him, Fajardo or Gas Gas despite it being brought to their attention and against their own regulations.

The problem with that is if one gets away with it, they'll all think it's okay.

Minder - Red Bib
Mechanic - Black bib
Factory - Green Bib









Was he the factory guy that had just forgotten or lost his bib? Nah - he was down the entrance to the section working on his own bike!

[bikespace]

I agree - the teams need educating, the observers have to enforce it, and the FIM have to back it up.
What is the point in having rules if they are flaunted.
What's to stop the bloke in the yellow jumper going in to the corridor to help out, followed by his wife, he has just as much right to be in there as the 'Cheater'.
There is a danger that it becomes like football, where the players blatantly yell abuse at the officials because discipline has been eroded over the years.

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

bikespace, on Oct 4 2005, 10:51 PM, said:

I think it's very hard to argue against the safety of allowing them in the section. I know what you mean - stop the minders and the sections will have to be easier, but what happens when one organiser doesn't quite toe the party line, and a rider does some serious injury. I'm sure the FIM would get it in the neck for cutting down what is essentially a safety net, rightly or wrongly.

By the way, I missed the ACU forum report, is it on here somewhere?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doesn't that make it unfair for the rider who has one or no minder then ? and more of a case if some riders have a bigger safety net than others.

Motor sports are dangerous riders competing in motor sports don't have
much of a comeback if they sign on.

There are many more machines on the course not competing than are, more of a chance of some bystander getting hurt by one of those, as stated in the ACU minutes.

Sections are pre inspected by the FIM official, anything deemed too dangerous should be taken out/ changed, at that time and often is, also the riders will and often do, agree to not ride any section they think to be over the top.

You and I go ride an event not having pre walked the sections and without minders every weekend and never give it a second thought, yes we are not riding world round sections, but we are riding to the extent of our ability.

I don't know if the word for full no stop next season is fact or fiction, but all this changing of the rules surely indicates it's not working as is, but I think they are looking in the wrong area to solve the problem.

[spud]

Quote

You and I go ride an event not having pre walked the sections and without minders every weekend and never give it a second thought, yes we are not riding world round sections, but we are riding to the extent of our ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No minders, mechanics or any kind of support staff in the sections. The press allowed in the inner ring of the sections but away from the riders. In Fajardo's case a factory mechanic/individual trying to pull a fast one as a press officer is well out of order and the factory should be called to answer his actions. No stop sections.

[Slapshot 3]

This is just another way of sneaking an advantage, if the organisers and stewards don't clamp down on it folk will just keep getting away with it. In times past some riders would walk sections in the scottish, where no minders are allowed, and cunningly station their pals at certain bits to ensure nothing moved before their attempt or to move anything that did out of the way.

Everybody looks for an advantage, where the stakes are highest cheating seems to be part of the game!!

[TrialsRfun]

Could not help but think when spectating at Hawkstone this year that there was a small entry for the World Championship class and barely a handful of these with a real chance of success.
These riders were accompanied by seemingly a lot more people than a minder and a mechanic obviously at great expense to the team so a rider without these extra people must be disadvantaged.

For the good of the sport this must surely stopped before we get a sort of F1 scenario where only the top few stand any chance.

Would it be wrong to introduce a sort of formula for trials with perhaps a minimum weight and maximum capacity for the bikes after all we already have a standard tyre type and now the 125 limit for juniors.

This should translate to eased sections and bigger entries so more for the spectators and after all there should then be more available areas to run a World Trial.

[bikespace]

One area that seemed a little bit slack in Hawkstone was the number of people allowed in the corridors. The previous trial I had observed in Hawkstone was the Junior European. There it was fairly simple. Riders and minders allowed in the corridor, riders and the one minder who was actually catching allowed in the section. Everybody else bugger off.

Hawkstone World Round - There will be riders, minders, mechanics bibs. Then there will be official press bibs. Some press unfortunately have got slightly different bibs. There will be about 5 people with FIM badges and a few other odds and sods.
There will also be a few officials knocking about, including Harry Lampkin, who don't have a bib on at all, or a badge, errr in fact it's your call if they're meant to be there or not.

When you're busy observing sometimes it's easier to ignore it if they're not in the way. The trouble is then, everybody else thinks, well if he can get away with it, so can I.
To play it to the letter of the law, you have to be squeaky clean and very organised I suppose.

[Andy]

Hawkstone was one of the better ones, believe me! Italy had no corridor and at other rounds Joe Public just ignored the outer corridor tape. Outer tape should be an electric fence, I say!

[bikespace]

Yeah I know what you mean. i better just say before I get it in the neck, I thought Hawkstone was organised almost to perfection, even from the perspective of an observer where I would think there's normally a fair bit that leaves a little to be desired.
Just using it as an example of how hard it is to police some of these things.
To expect the riders to play it absolutely by the book, the organisation needs to be absolutely perfect (which is a damned hard thing to do with 99% volunteers).
Although, I think the teams should be doing their bit to keep trials an honest sport.

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

Never used to have an outer spectator tape, in fact often spectators boots were the boundary, suppose it all keeps getting changed to make the event fair for all competitors.

But I wonder if the rule makers/changers have noticed yet, that it is getting more unfair, and less riders than ever now ride the champinship class, time to back the old rules bus up a bit.

My youngest learned at less than one year old, that if you touch something hot it burned, lesson learned,
how many times do the scoring rules have to be changed back and forth to learn it isn't the scoring rules that are the problem.


Ask the top teams, riders, manufacturers, what is the best way to solve the problems, the answer will be what ever suits thier situation best.

Bottom line! the way it's going it will soon sort itself out for good.

[TrialsRfun]

Ask the top teams, riders, manufacturers, what is the best way to solve the problems, the answer will be what ever suits thier situation best.

Bottom line! the way it's going it will soon sort itself out for good.

Ishy I could not agree more if those in charge of our sport of trials do not see this and choose to ignore the signs then I fear we will see trials at world and even national level disappear.

How often when riding to a section comprising nothing more than a few twists and turns over and around something silly have you passed areas where a superb natural section could have been plotted.

No less a person than Sammy Miller says what sensible parents will encourage their children to ride a motorcycle up a 12 ft cliff and he is so right.

The popularity of British bike/Twinshock trials has more to do with the type of sections plotted and the easy going atmosphere than just riding an old bike.

Somewhere else on here the question how much will you pay for a lightweight bike is being asked but surely that can only worsen an already difficult situation.

Surely a minimum weight/maximum capacity rule is needed to reduce costs and increase riding areas as well as hopefully helping to keep our sport relatively safe.