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Trials Bike Evolution - Where Next?


johnnyboxer
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Hi Jon

I'm a much better rider than the easy line that the organiser setup at our event, but i register in that category because I don't like the '' competition '' side off riding trial. I'm lucky that the organiser let me ride that way, what I do is return a scoring card ( they insist on giving me one ) with full score ( 5 in all sections ). Maybe they tolerate me because I ride both TS and Modern bikes and the fact that there is not al lot of rider, usually less than 20 also help. I would never  be stupid enough to complain about the section laying. There is a low entry fee, I don't think they cover the expense, that I gladly pay. So no pressure on me. Am I just the only one that like it that way ? Since you are on this '' case '' Jon, can you explain to me why it seem impossible at many trials ?

 

Guy

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There are plenty of Classic trials here in the South West my biggest problem is not clashing with other clubs. It seems to be the modern trials that are poorly supported.

My trials,(Which are in slow progress of being organised) will welcome Pre65 and Twinshock only bikes,not even converted mono's or aircooled mono's will be included. I can then mark out sections which people are always asking me for,where big bikes can have a decent day out. The support for this is there,its just not a quick thing to put in place.

 

This post helps illustrate the problems the sport is facing in having suitable bike classes. Jon intends to have a clear split between twinshocks and monos. A well sorted late Bulto 325 or 340 in the hands of a good (if aging) rider is more than capable of cleaning section after section that will cause a succession of 5s or 3s for 50% or more of the entry on modern bikes.

Perhaps modern bikes are going down an evolutionary dead end, a bit like Giant Pandas, maybe interesting for some to watch but apart from trying to survive in their specialised habitat pretty pointless.

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This post helps illustrate the problems the sport is facing in having suitable bike classes. Jon intends to have a clear split between twinshocks and monos. A well sorted late Bulto 325 or 340 in the hands of a good (if aging) rider is more than capable of cleaning section after section that will cause a succession of 5s or 3s for 50% or more of the entry on modern bikes.

Perhaps modern bikes are going down an evolutionary dead end, a bit like Giant Pandas, maybe interesting for some to watch but apart from trying to survive in their specialised habitat pretty pointless.

That may be the case, but not in my situation. I just don't like modern bikes,at all,don't like the look of them or the way they are ridden.They leave me stone cold.

I'm not alone,and plenty of people have been on at me to run some trials again since I finished my stint at Bath Classic. Its only going to be a couple of events a year,all proceeds going to charity. I'm not bothered if 30 or 100 riders turn up,all that matters is that we enjoy it.

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some of these may of previously been posted but here's my dream innovations for the modern trials bikes (leave the old beauties to run like the gold they are);

 

- Air sprung, fully adjustable suspension on both front and rear.  With crud/debris guards on the rear shock, the risk of body tube damage is limited and also wiper seal contamination.

- Adjustable geometries.  Why not?We are not all the same shape/length and having a machine tailored to suit you can help a lot and prevent injury/discomfort.

- Hybrid engines - electric runs us around the trial and the pollution juice kicks in when we are riding sections ( A big dream to help this planet out a tad)

- More tyre choices -  as good as Michelin are, why hasn't any other brands come up with anything?  Different treads for summer/winter/compounds.

Hope Disc Brakes -  The Barnoldswick former aerospace engineers should give us a brake that works because no one else can. Do it please!

Grease nipples on suspension linkages - Maybe in biased living here in Uk but cartridge bearings don't last that long even if un jet washed. I would happily pump a nipple with grease after each ride.

 

  I know some of these will drive up costs but remember its a 'dream' list thats not by no stretch too far from the reality of manufacturing within that past decade.

 

 happy xmas  all.

 

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some of these may of previously been posted but here's my dream innovations for the modern trials bikes (leave the old beauties to run like the gold they are);

 

- Air sprung, fully adjustable suspension on both front and rear.  With crud/debris guards on the rear shock, the risk of body tube damage is limited and also wiper seal contamination.

- Adjustable geometries.  Why not?We are not all the same shape/length and having a machine tailored to suit you can help a lot and prevent injury/discomfort.

- Hybrid engines - electric runs us around the trial and the pollution juice kicks in when we are riding sections ( A big dream to help this planet out a tad)

- More tyre choices -  as good as Michelin are, why hasn't any other brands come up with anything?  Different treads for summer/winter/compounds.

Hope Disc Brakes -  The Barnoldswick former aerospace engineers should give us a brake that works because no one else can. Do it please!

Grease nipples on suspension linkages - Maybe in biased living here in Uk but cartridge bearings don't last that long even if un jet washed. I would happily pump a nipple with grease after each ride.

 

  I know some of these will drive up costs but remember its a 'dream' list thats not by no stretch too far from the reality of manufacturing within that past decade.

 

 happy xmas  all.

Re the hybrid engine. I would not be suprised if somewhere in the world a hybrid bike is being developed for military applications. The electric for stealth mode and engine for all out speed.

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I think trials - modern trials will kill itself slowly over the coming years.The problem is the riders, not the bikes.Very few riders can make use of bikes that are 10 years old let alone the brand new ones if they are honest.All the threads about which a rider should buy - a 200/250/300 ? Truth is a 125 is more than most can use,plenty like to THINK they need more,but they don't.

Look at how many clubs have folded that run modern trials,then look at classic and twinshock entries - the Kia series is a good example. The point is that the sections can be hard enough to test even very accomplished riders on a twinshock without being completely mental - scaring away your average clubman rider - who,by the way fills the entry list and buys most of the bikes.

When I was running trials for Bath Classic I got fed up with turning away people wanting to enter on modern bikes,as I said to them its a classic club with appropriate sections for older bikes. They just wanted somewhere to ride where they could get around without killing themselves or looking stupid,I sympathise, but not at the expense of other riders on Pre65's or twinshocks. 

Not saying its wrong,I just think it has run its course, technology has got pretty much to the end of what Joe Wobbler can use.

Got to be over 60 years old to ride a modern monoshock in Bath Classics trials.  

I ride a 125 monoshock and it's capabilities are way above my ability.

The future?  Electric bikes.

Edited by stpauls
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Jon, I would never disagree with your reason, If Modern is not your cup off tea, I get it you will not greed them with open arms. Also I remember about 10 years back being at a modern event with a TS, I could not feel '' the love '' . It's unfortunate for us ( most of the time  ) the older bike lovers who enjoy all type off bike an competition. The best time you can have is at Daytona USA during the Bike Week, you see everything. From Trial to Road Race and in between, Dirt Track and Motocross with vintage and....

 

Guy

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Re the hybrid engine. I would not be suprised if somewhere in the world a hybrid bike is being developed for military applications. The electric for stealth mode and engine for all out speed.

 

Electric bikes (motors) are not at all stealthy. They emit a huge individual electromagnetic signature.

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Hi Jon

I'm a much better rider than the easy line that the organiser setup at our event, but i register in that category because I don't like the '' competition '' side off riding trial. I'm lucky that the organiser let me ride that way, what I do is return a scoring card ( they insist on giving me one ) with full score ( 5 in all sections ). Maybe they tolerate me because I ride both TS and Modern bikes and the fact that there is not al lot of rider, usually less than 20 also help. I would never  be stupid enough to complain about the section laying. There is a low entry fee, I don't think they cover the expense, that I gladly pay. So no pressure on me. Am I just the only one that like it that way ? Since you are on this '' case '' Jon, can you explain to me why it seem impossible at many trials ?

 

Guy

 

I feel the same way, though I genuinely do rack up lots of 3s and 5s, lol ... but yes, I basically just want to ride about, have fun, and don't give two figs about competition.  I also don't care what other people are riding, but I do think that pushing modern bikes out completely also pushes out a more diverse range of riders (ie. younger people, women, those on a tight budget)

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On 12/23/2016 at 9:03 AM, jon v8 said:

There are plenty of Classic trials here in the South West my biggest problem is not clashing with other clubs. It seems to be the modern trials that are poorly supported.

My trials,(Which are in slow progress of being organised) will welcome Pre65 and Twinshock only bikes,not even converted mono's or aircooled mono's will be included. I can then mark out sections which people are always asking me for,where big bikes can have a decent day out. The support for this is there,its just not a quick thing to put in place.

And also catering for the Over Sixties riding modern bikes?

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If I ever setup a classic trial I would be more than willing to let modern riders have a go, I would just let them know I will give them a score card for their own records but they would be riding for the fun of it non-event non-season points.  

Hopefully they would enjoy the event and consider coming back and who knows maybe on a classic twin shock etc. next time?  

My 2 Cents... 

Edited by jonnyc21
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I can think of a few riders I know who would benefit from an electric start. Direct oil injection on two strokes. Stronger frames and components even if it adds some weight, I like gasgas and sherco bikes but how thin the parts are in places make me wince. An optional seat and tank unit as standard on all the makes. Maybe the fuel tank lower, airbox higher. More preferences than innovations I'm afraid ;)

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On 21/12/2016 at 10:25 PM, spen said:

The biggest downsides for me is not being able to tinker with the motor, not having the pleasure of the aroma of a hot two stroke wafting through the old olfactory organ.....

Being and engineer and taking great pleasure in developing my own bikes I couldn't agree with you more Spen. Electric is all witchcraft and black magic to me! 

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Battery life is not yet long enough for most trials,whether it ever will be without too great a weight penalty remains to be seen.Bikes have been developed to a point where marks lost at most events are purely the riders fault.I can't see the need or the possibility of developing them significantly further 

id like to see grease nipples on chassis and linkage bearings,stator casings that are waterproof,top quality bearings and seals from new,mudguards that bend rather than break,brake and gear controls likewise .2t engines to be developed to burn less oil and so cleaner

Id like them to be cheaper,but I don't think it's possible,less or no vat would help but I think I'm dreaming on that one.

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