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Fantic 305 noise


fantic tom
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10 hours ago, ask greeves said:

Fantic Tom, Would have been nice to have seen the markings (letters) on top  of the barrel and the markings on top of the piston (in your photos), these should correspond (be the same). Next, if the barrel looks OK (but it's hard to tell definitely without really seeing the barrel in real life) If for instance both barrel and piston are (say) B, then you would need to aquire a B piston kit (piston, wrist pin, rings and circlips) also (hopefully) would include a wrist pin bearing, but I would fit a new wrist pin bearing also. My experience has been, that to refit a noisey piston, will (at some time) damage the chrome bore, Of course while head and barrel is removed...to check the big end for excessive play, it's pointless to fit a new piston to a suspect bottom end.   

 

The head is stamped 9R D and the piston I think says N9DD then E+arrow. Does this sound right?

 

Thank you

 

Tom.

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1 hour ago, fantic tom said:

 

The head is stamped 9R D and the piston I think says N9DD then E+arrow. Does this sound right?

 

Thank you

 

Tom.

One of your photos almost shows the letter we're looking for ( it's the image at bottom of photo) looks like a top of a B, if you could take a photo, including this whole letter...we could then maybe sort it.

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54 minutes ago, fantic tom said:

Iv had the piston soaking in degreaser overnight and brushed it up. This should be better!.....

 

20170104_130359_zpsip7ipqbm.jpg

Would still like to see the 'letter' on top of the barrel, But seems everything is pointing towards 'D' But the other markings suggests 'E' and as the gradings go in 0-0004 thou (4 tenths of 1 thou)..looks like an 'E' piston would work. But lets reserve judgement until we recognise the markings on the barrel. Next problem would be (if you decided to fit new piston) is a piston available !

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Iv called a fantic parts specialist up and the only pistons he has are A,B and C. 

Im half tempted to polish the parts up and rebuild it and enjoy it as it is!  It runs mint - there's no blow by just a bit of a rattle that I can live with.

Maybe do this until something goes wrong and go the full rebuild if anything happens down the line.

Unless I can track down a D piston, what you'd you guys reccomend?

 

Edited by fantic tom
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Again I would leave everything as it is reassemble and in the meantime save some money for a complete rebuild of cylinder, custom made piston and con-rod with new upper and lower pins bearings and if in need thrust washers. That done by one company so no one could blame any other and the next 10 years of happy riding are ahead.

There is a saying:

The cheap pays twice.

And as the part situation isn't the beat anymore and you sometimes need as mentioned here special sizes that than again only fit to NOS cylinders without wear and to replicate just the same coating ... too many incidents, too many conflicts and left over questions.

Edited by pschrauber
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Decision now made! Unless I can find a D size piston to order before friday I'll clean it up and rebuild it with new gaskets. Its not a bad rattle but I'm a bit ott with things sometimes. 

I'll wait for it to get bad or go wrong and get the full lot done properly! Thank you.

 

Would you lightly polish the piston with ultra fine wet and dry and clean the carbon streaks from the barrel before re assembly?

Is there anywhere anyone could reccomend ringing to find a D size piston?

Thank you for all for your advice so far!!!

Edited by fantic tom
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On 2/1/2017 at 9:10 PM, turbo said:

I have heard that a piston from a later 309 can be fitted to the 305 motor to help the noise issue , is this true ?  (ask greeves )  Thanks.

Ok, but who sell the last 309 piston ( 2 hole )  ?

 

 

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6 hours ago, fantic tom said:

Decision now made! Unless I can find a D size piston to order before friday I'll clean it up and rebuild it with new gaskets. Its not a bad rattle but I'm a bit ott with things sometimes. 

I'll wait for it to get bad or go wrong and get the full lot done properly! Thank you.

 

Would you lightly polish the piston with ultra fine wet and dry and clean the carbon streaks from the barrel before re assembly?

Is there anywhere anyone could reccomend ringing to find a D size piston?

Thank you for all for your advice so far!!!

Hi Fantic Tom, I have heard that it's possible to deform the piston skirt to take up excess clearance. Does seem quite drastic and i've never found it necessary to try this 'fix' myself. 

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Pistons can also be sprayed with a bake on coating,this is a low friction surface which can be 1/2 a thou thick,so up to a thou on O/D. Works very well,my AJS is is running with it,I also had a pair of Ducati MHR pistons done as well. When I sold it the new owner couldn't believe how quiet and smooth the engine was.

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27 minutes ago, ask greeves said:

Hi Fantic Tom, I have heard that it's possible to deform the piston skirt to take up excess clearance. Does seem quite drastic and i've never found it necessary to try this 'fix' myself. 

That sounds interesting! how is that done? I will live with a bit of a rattle after a good online search it seems to be normal on this engine?

 

After a good soak and wipe out of the bore today with a soft cloth and wd40 the bore has now got no carbon streaks and looks like new! So I don't want to get it replated now but would love to find a D piston. I found a C piston would this be better than the one I have got?

 

Here's a pic of it after a soak in degreaser there's some funny colouring on the skirt after it dried.....

 

20170104_200444_zpsjklyynt6.jpg

20170104_200508_zpshytazah3.jpg

Edited by fantic tom
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52 minutes ago, jon v8 said:

Pistons can also be sprayed with a bake on coating,this is a low friction surface which can be 1/2 a thou thick,so up to a thou on O/D. Works very well,my AJS is is running with it,I also had a pair of Ducati MHR pistons done as well. When I sold it the new owner couldn't believe how quiet and smooth the engine was.

Sounds interesting too, how do you use this? And is it avaliable in a diy kit?

 

Thank you

 

Tom.

Edited by fantic tom
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41 minutes ago, fantic tom said:

Sounds interesting too, how do you use this?

The piston is masked up and sprayed just like a paint job,its then baked. Its sacrificial so will do no harm to anything else in the engine.Hopefully the Yamaha piston for my Ariel build has just been done. Attached is the piston in my AJS whch is an Australian JP one, all I could get at the time and does not have a brilliant reputation due to high expansion / noise problems. We were able to halve the bore clearance suggested, to 3 thou because of the coating.It has worked the,engine has never been noisy,picked up or used oil.

Sorry the pic is blurred - Didn't have me best specs on...

IMAG0428.jpg

Edited by jon v8
Bad eyesight.
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