ringo Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Over the years I've seen all of you debate over how to get an American rider to be competative at a world round. What I haven't seen are suggestions with regards to sponsorship. The reason the other countries are so competative is that the sport of trials pays money over there and is considered a professional sport. Here in America, trials is an amatuer sport. Our professional sports here pays nice little chunks of money like 25 million dollar contracts therefore our kids are motivated and their parents are turned into "soccer parents" doing all the things that create professional sports players out of them. Take motocross for example. Notice all the adds on tv where the whole family rides and the kid turns into an RC. Notice the tv shows that show how big the estates are of professional sports heros today. For discussion of a realistic solution, why not bring back the attempts at a professional trial wherein there is prize money. Nothing motivates more than money. Ricky Carmichael didn't have to go to another country to be #1 Tiger Woods didn't. Shaquile O'neil Babe Ruth, etc, etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 On that note, Ted Gansberger has done more than anyone in that respect via creating and funding the USA indoor championship series. I'm pretty sure he lost his ass on the two events and not sure he's going to continue the fight by himself. Not sure many men are willing to spend near $50k per event to try and expand the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Of course Ringo is right, money is always the fertilizer of top flight sport. Bernie, Marland, Myself and a host of other Americans were paid to ride during the last push to the top by American riders. The other factor was desire, there was a national desire for US roadracers, MX, speedway, enduro riders and yes trials riders to beat the world. Today our US riders in every motorcycle discipline still have that drive. Except in trials. Win, lose or draw, you don't know what you can do until you try. You also can't learn the game if you don't play it, Americans are simply not playing the world championship game today. The only way to improve is to jump in and play! If you skin you knee, if you get beat so what! Simply don't give up, work on the weak points, learn, observe and try your best. Do better every event if you can, pick off your compeditors one by one until you reach your best. Then sit back and enjoy the journey you just had. It's far better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all. Having been on the field or in the stadium as a player a few times in life is better than never having been one at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Of course Ringo is right, money is always the fertilizer of top flight sport. Bernie, Marland, Myself and a host of other Americans were paid to ride during the last push to the top by American riders. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tha never seems to be short of fertilizer, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 What events would be money events? Locals I don't think are possible due to the small amount of money invested just to keep them alive. Nationals... well... hate to ruin that no strings attached feeling. Or will it be events like the Ute cup or something? The problem with trials is the small amount of money already in it makes it hard to provide purses in the first place. Wish GG would do comercials over here though. Enough of the those Honda ones with junior all american "ripping" it up in some redwood forest with mom and pop. Lets see some splatters and zaps and blow some minds. I agree with ya mich. That will probably end up being the new and upcoming riders that force themselves into that to get to the wtc level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Bernie and his rivals, were on payroll from the US importers to ride trials. There never was a purse trials event that I remember. We did get bonus money for winning from our sponsors if that can be counted. Being paid to ride we simply didn't have to hold down a regular job. We just traveled, practiced and rode trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I wonder if people would be willing to pay more for bikes if they knew the money would go toward supporting a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Charlie Two things are differnt now than in the 70s. First more trials bikes were sold in the USA, a lot more back then. Which meant that the importers had more cash to spred around. Second we didn't have all the age groups at the nationals, each of these 16 plus classes have riders with some degree of support from the importers. So insted of all the money going to the top Pro class like it was in Bernie's day. It's devided into 16 tiny little pieces giving a tiny little bit of support to each age class. Today we have importer supported riders in the 30 year old, 35, 40,45,50,55,60,65,70 year old age groups, plus Expert, Expert Sportsmen, Highschool, ladies and now we have added a grade school class and women's B class. Each class is hotly contested by the importers and they all recieve importer support. So the pie is sliced 16 differnt ways today. Todays smaller sport simply cannot support all these sponsored riders in all the age classes with the same level of suppport that Bernie, Marland or myself had. In the 70's only the top few pros recieved factory or importer support, riders in the senior classes were club riders and did it for fun without importer sponsorship. Think about it, the pie was bigger and the slices were also. The slices always went to the countries very best pros, today the pie is also cut up to feed the senior and club level riders who contest the age group championships of the NATC nationals. That's what's differnt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne thais Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I like to compare our sport to bicycle racing as I have participated in both, I raced and promoted bicycle races for nearly ten years, 85-95. Most of the local "Amateur" bike races had some sort of cash purse available for all of the classes. For the smaller classes you could at least get your entry fee back if you placed well enough, you might even cover you gas costs. In the CATI/II class they could win $500 - $1,000 for a decent place. It was not hard getting local sponsors to come up with a little money. We developed a nice brochure that included all of out sponsors. I was a little disappointed when I started competing in trials and found out that no prze money was offered. The club in Oklahoma recently (for the second year in a row) had a nice purse for the top 5 Pro riders. Other clubs might want to do the same thing. Take a look at a site like www.velonews.com and see what they are doing at the local level for bicycle racing. I think we might learn something from them. Some of the best bicycle racers in the world now come from the good old USA. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 How many people recognize the name Lance Armstrong, and how many people recognize the name Adam Raga. How many bycycles are sold per year in the USA, How many trials motorcycles are sold per year in the USA. If earning money is so important,get a job that pays, because there isn't any in trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 I will bite in here Lane. How much money was paid to a top rider at that time by the importer. No beating around the bush or evasive answers, just straight up, how much were you Bernie, Marland or whoever making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne thais Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Ishy, the number of true "racing bicycles" sold is probably pretty low, a really good bike can cost 3 - 5K. Please don't throw out the baby with the bath water. The US bicycle racing scene is NOT supported by the importers, it is for the most part supported by the racers and a STRONG National organization. I think we can learn something from the way they conduct their events, and provide support for the riders through the national organization. I could race all across the country and know that my license would be recognized and the racing classes would be consistent from state to state. We are still struggling with the basic rules in trials, we sure don't have the same classes from state to state. I would like to see the AMA really get involved in trials and help get it organized on a national level. I think that the importers are stretched about as far as they can be stretched and the burden of growth needs to placed elsewhere. Where, I would suggest local clubs/promotors along with the AMA. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Wayne, neither the AMA nor the NATC are interested in promoting the sport or developing it. That is why the new organisation (USMTA) was formed to hopefully achieve some of the goals that you have laid out. http://www.usmotorcycletrials.com/ We are trying to get it up and on it's feet and running. As you can see by the mission statement, many of the items that get brought up again and again hope to be addressed by this group with the express desire and intention of promoting observed trials in our country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 My point has nothing to do with what a bicycle may cost, but the fact that millions of people ride bicycles and can relate the name of Lance to bike racing, go to a mall and ask 100 people who is Lance Armstrong and what is his claim to fame, and also ask the same question about Adam Raga. Yes I can see how you could muster up enough sponsors for a cycle race, but have you put on a trial and tried to do the same ? Well trials isn't spectator friendly outdoors, but will sell indoors should draw thousands providing the countries top riders attend, just a minute! it was done two years in a row call, the promoter of that and ask him how profitable it was and will he be doing it again. The world championship has been on the go for 30 years, has spectator participation grown ? rider participation? sponsorship? NO!! why ? The corporate sponsor won't touch trials, the public won't pay to go see it, all that is left is the club rider, how long do you think they would stick around if entry fees were raised so half of what they paid to enter an event was given to the best rider in the club each event, most clubs the same rider would be taking home the spoils every weekend. If you can put on a series of events over the year, giving a purse of like you state above, draw spectators, riders and break even at the end of it, then I will definately be interested, talk is cheap, show me how it can be done in trials. I know the local MX track can draw 30,000 spectators to see the countries top riders, but trials is not MX is it, nor is cycle racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 (edited) Ishy, I agree with you that trials is not a spectator friendly sport, neither is off road racing. That's what's so cool about areacross, it allows us to see these guys ride for the first time. The same can be said for world indoor trials, it's a good TV show. To be honest bike racing cross country is not a very good spectator sport either but Wayne has shown us that it pays. We have to admit that the NATC does eat up a lot of the entry fees for a national. For good or bad! Edited December 9, 2005 by Mich Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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