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trapezeartist

First Aid at Trials

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Just to put anyone’s mind at rest, it’s a common comment about people being sued if first aid goes wrong. There has never been a prosecution in this country for anyone giving first aid. Blame culture or not unless you chop someone’s arm off for a splinter then it ain’t going to happen.just ask any qualified first aider or first aid trainer who will confirm this More likely someone may try to complain there is no first aid provision. 

Seen plenty of bad cuts, broken shoulder, ankle etc but typical trials no shortage of people doing all they can to help.

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The PO mentioned riders and observers, I can't stress enough easiest way to get first aid in first hand and fast too is to have some medic's and an Ambulance on site during the trials competitions. Some clubs even try to get contemporary vehicles to classic trials as seen here with a Mercedes flat nose ambulance truck and two ambulance girls !

You have to make something out of it … it should be a win win situation for everybody !w8wI2sx-fU0Ei0DwjzfLbZmssek3ZeCmEd8Jm2l1

Modern ambulance (my club) work of course too:
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A fair few of clubs offer a free ride for providing an observer, how about a free ride for being a first aider? Certified and registered of course

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  1. the ACU as part of its wide ranging insurance cover, has £10 million medical malpractice cover for your first aid efforts (page 111, 2018 handbook)

  2. if the question being asked is, is a first aid kit a good idea, is first aid training a good idea then we are all for it. ACU HQ even ran some first aid training days over the winter

  3. if the question is should the above (2) be compulsory then are we creating some problems for some clubs ... ???

  4. if the question is should we have defibrillator (we had a guy this year have sever chest pains) then there are still issues around them, in principle it could be nice but at what cost and practicability (we have a permanent venue with buildings and electricity - but most others don't)

  5. if the question is about having medics on site (to what standard - normal, technician, paramedic, doctor) with what equipment (the later 3 need drugs) and what vehicle (4x4 for access and/or blue light capability). at trials in the uk, below british solo round status nothing is compulsory - and these medics are pricey.

the real question i would ask back is what problem are we trying to solve? As someone who runs a lot of mx, enduro and trials with a large road race track down the road do we all realise how relatively safe/benign trials is. At a MX we have several paramedics/ technicians with 3 to 4 ambulances and we "normally" injure "a lot" of people (eg 3 to 6 broken bones a meeting). Road race really does hurt people as they slide off at high speed while the "real" road racing (TT IOM, NW200, etc) kills people with alarming regulatory. In my experience (we run 7 or so trials a year) we get an injury about every few years but we have the first aid kit, people with first aid training and are easily accessible by ambulance. But when we've run LDTs the handful of injuries there are more challenging just be the fact byways are difficult for ambulances to get to...

 

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As an acu coach I do a first aid course every few years to get my licence. As a national clerk of course for a British champ we ensure we have first aid cover . As a manager in a manufacturing company we make sure we have first aiders but in reality all any body needs to do is stop anybody getting any worse until an ambulance can get to them - so cpr/ recovery position/ clear airways / diabetic shock / stop a major bleed etc are all you need to know.  And make sure the officials and riders know where you are if they need to call 999 - bobs farm doesn’t help much - makes sure you have map coordinates and know if an ambulance / air ambulance can get to you. Sprains , strains even broken digits pack them off to local a&e which you have displayed at the start area. Triangular bandages and slings are for scouts in reality .

i think a defib at £700 odd is worth owning by every centre if not club - with ever increasing average age this is going to be the best life saver as us old git push our bikes out for a 3. The youngster with a big crash will probably jump back on and blame the observer 

just my 2 penny 

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12 hours ago, on it said:

 YOU are looking for problems that are very rare ,next you,ll  want a ambulance at a trial just incase . You would find any trained first -aiders would step up if needed .As for clubs, clubs are run by volunteers  who is going to take responsibility & liability( blame clam society) if the first aid treatment goes wrong ?,Read the sign "caution motor-sport is dangerous" so is it not down to the rider for his/her own safety ? seen loads drinks bottles taped to bikes never seen a first aid kit . Should we put entry fees up and book a ambulance for every trial  first aid will be well covered then or just  use  999 as we do now" that worked for me !" I feel this topic will come under " can of worms" 

I'm not suggesting an ambulance, and as has already been said there has never been a case of a successful prosecution or claim against a first-aider who was trying to help a casualty. I don't believe my suggestions would push up entry fees, though personally I wouldn't mind a small increase to cover the sort of things I was suggesting.

In the last three weeks I've attended to two people with suspected heart attacks (who I just happened to come across in the course of normal life). In the last six months I've attended to two injuries at trials. This may or may not be typical, but it happened.

I would love to see a defibrillator available at every event but they are expensive and require frequent maintenance if they are not a semi-fixed installation. If a club chooses to invest in one, that's great but I wouldn't suggest it should be mandatory. On the other hand a bag-valve-mask, a tourniquet and a few sterile dressings cost very little and can be administered by anyone with a standard first-aid-at-work qualification. It would be nice to add in oral and nasal airways but that may be a little dangerous as their use falls a little bit further up the scale.

Most people have a first aid qualification because they want to help people. All I'm proposing is that trial organisers could readily help first-aiders to help anyone at a trial who needs attention, regardless of whether that's a cardiac arrest or just a nasty cut.

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Having brought a rider back to life after he suffered a (suspected) heart attack, whilst on an isolated Byway, a few years ago, whilst I can appreciate, and laugh at the above scenario, its just amazing just how much you remember - when faced with summat like that, yes, quite a while previously to that incident,.. I had attended a basic first aid course....in the days when it was 'breath of life and chest compressions'. (And in the days before mobile phones were as available as they are now)

 

Think the Op was right to raise this subject............and I think its generated a healthy (pardon the pun) conversation.

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On ‎10‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 4:35 PM, on it said:

 Why should a first aid trained person  make themselves known ? if having a day off  imo reasonable, As for first aid kit riders have there own  imo reasonable, Really were dose it all stop ?   Do we manage at  trials now so why is were is the problem ?

What sort of person wouldn’t offer help to a fellow rider!

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1 hour ago, suzuki250 said:

What sort of person wouldn’t offer help to a fellow rider!

A misanthropist?

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1 hour ago, oni nou said:

A misanthropist?

There were plenty of them at the trial I rode and I bet at least one has read this thread !

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On 10/07/2018 at 4:35 PM, on it said:

 Why should a first aid trained person  make themselves known ? if having a day off  imo reasonable, As for first aid kit riders have there own  imo reasonable, Really were dose it all stop ?   Do we manage at  trials now so why is were is the problem ?

Why would someone take two days out of their life every three years to train, and then not assist someone who needed it?

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14 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

Why would someone take two days out of their life every three years to train, and then not assist someone who needed it?

im not saying they will not step up NOW ,But your attitude is you expect them to " go and sign on get a sash" They are then  put in a situation of pressure of staying at the trial ALL day think how they feel if they go early and someone hurts themself and they are not there ?. Yes great for the first couple of trials but will it end off like observers(expected) the same people get asked at every trial ? Every trials club is run by volunteers  its a SAD day to expect the clubs to sort a plaster and someone to apply it ! WHY dont YOU organize (take on)  the first aid at trials in your center ? im sure the clubs would love the help 1 thing less for a over stretched club workforce to do

Edited by on it

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12 hours ago, on it said:

im not saying they will not step up NOW ,But your attitude is you expect them to " go and sign on get a sash" They are then  put in a situation of pressure of staying at the trial ALL day think how they feel if they go early and someone hurts themself and they are not there ?. Yes great for the first couple of trials but will it end off like observers(expected) the same people get asked at every trial ? Every trials club is run by volunteers  its a SAD day to expect the clubs to sort a plaster and someone to apply it ! WHY dont YOU organize (take on)  the first aid at trials in your center ? im sure the clubs would love the help 1 thing less for a over stretched club workforce to do

I don't expect anyone to do anything, but I think it would be helpful if the facility was there. I fully intend to talk to the clubs whose trials I ride in, and I'll give what help I can. Before doing that directly, I thought I'd post on here to get the opinions of others. With one exception, they seem to be favourable to the idea so I'll press ahead. It's also notable that the contributions from posters in other countries suggest that we are way behind on this topic in the UK.

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i am just sceptical of it  once people start having to sign things seem to spiral and you or me  dont know what it might bring to trials  it could be very good or it could be very bad. Me i like to just leave trials as they are ,good luck with what you do 

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