mattr Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 (edited) It has also been noted, why buy a bike in the US when you can only Compete 7 to 12 times a year? Compare that to GII who can ride 35 to 40 trials a year within one hours drive of his house. This was my dilema. I bought a trials bike and rode for a few years. However, there were no good practise locations nearby and the only chance I got to ride was in competitions. I had to drive several hours one-way to the event, ride all day, and get back late at night. With a family, it was just to hard to get away for trials in my area. I ended up selling my bike and now only ride my enduro bike. I love the sport of trials, but not the way we do it in America. Edited January 20, 2006 by MattR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclist Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Brendan, If it seems that a trials bike makes everything too easy then you are obviously not challenging yourself enough. You should try going riding with some experienced trials people. I won't be going to AZ for the Berg gathering, but if Bob & John have another ride I will try to make it with my lowered Berg. Check out sactopits.org and lewisportusa.com Great sources for information. There are some events at Frank Raines Park in a couple of months, check them out if you can. I'm sure our paths will cross sometime this year. Have a great one! Scott (cyclist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne thais Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 We have not ridden any enduro's with the trials bikes, but have ridden several of our club hare scrambles and have not seen any adverse affects. It does clean out the exhaust real well. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 The type of riding that the previous member mentioned is alive and well. We have ridden trials bikes for enduros, cross countries, or long distance events here in Canada for years. Most guys I ride with either use the popular Outlaw backpacks (designed and manufactured in Canada by Outlaw Accessories, ask for Outlaw dave), or one of the many fork mounted extra gas tanks that automatically siphen. The backpack is my choice as it has 3 special external bottles/holders for extra gas. I spend far more time "free riding" on my trials bike than I do competing. I would challenge pretty much anyone to come along and say it isn't as challenging or more than any event you can ride. Total freedom, awesome scenery, and a never ending supply of fun! Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Just for reference, and I hope to add some clarity, but really, it will probably muddy the water further, The original quote that this thread was based on was by a UK rider whom many of us assumed was a US rider. Clean or bust, which club are you a member of? I'm in UK (North Yorkshire). For some reason I appear to have been assumed to be American! This was taken from the post http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7042 It explains to me why that person has a very different outlook on trials then many of us in the US. I will also chime in too say, that it is my belief, that a well run, well thought out trial will have minimal lines at the sections. In my opinion, a seperate puncher to punch cards, short, clear, to the point sections with a difficulty level that does not cause constant crashes and hangs keeps riders moving through quickly. Long, exceptionally hard, crash inducing where people have to work to get the bike out of the section and lack of a puncher and the observer running back and forth trying to do both tasks, and not being able to do it from one vantage point are things that induce long waits at the sections. I have run multiple 75 rider events on a 40 acre piece of land with minimum waiting at the sections over the last couple of years. There was almost always one or two riders in line, and usually less then 5 at any particular point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 One area we are working on to speed trials up in our club, used in the Summer at the club Wednesday night series, is the observer writes the score on a section score sheet rather than punch the score on a card. Each rider has their riding number on the number plate, the observer can sit at any vantage point in the section and record the score without moving. This system is the norm in the UK, no need for two people to man a section in club type events. At the club weekend events we run group check or split the event into morning and afternoon, both ways take longer and more man power than the observer with pencil. The Wednesday night series takes half the time and is a more popular system with both the riders and observers, but!! still finding people to man sections on a weekend is next to impossible. Our club should start using the pencil and paper for weekend events if for no other reason than to save time and energy for the observer. Because clubs over here are more isolated and riding many different club events in a short period of time isn't a common practice, it would be easy to give riders a perminent riding number for the season based on their standings in the club from the prior season, this also could give more incentive to move higher up the number board, as it's on the front of your bike were you stand in the club rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 But Gawd Ishy, if I got the number of where I stood in my club ratings, the number would be so big it would take a billboard to show it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Really the FIM should require in the future minimun seat and gas tank size to make the bikes good trail bikes again and look like other motorcycles. It would be what's best for the sport and the manufacturers because it would boost bike sales. More events would come when there are more people interested in trials. When there is a market for events the demand could be filled by professional organizers who are interested in makeing a buck. That's how MX became more popular, organizers built tracks to earn money. Trials needs to follow the more professional lead of MX. No sport can survive with all volenteer labor! A sport that can only be done a few times a year will never become anything but an obscure fringe sport. Also consider, would you rather have a bunch of people racing around the woods and deserts on MX machines or trials bikes? What will have greater noise volume and enviromental impact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I'll agree with that Lane, best post I have seen you post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Really the FIM should require in the future minimun seat and gas tank size to make the bikes good trail bikes again and look like other motorcycles. It would be what's best for the sport and the manufacturers because it would boost bike sales. More events would come when there are more people interested in trials. When there is a market for events the demand could be filled by professional organizers who are interested in makeing a buck. That's how MX became more popular, organizers built tracks to earn money. Trials needs to follow the more professional lead of MX. No sport can survive with all volenteer labor! A sport that can only be done a few times a year will never become anything but an obscure fringe sport. Also consider, would you rather have a bunch of people racing around the woods and deserts on MX machines or trials bikes? What will have greater noise volume and enviromental impact? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree completely! From what I have read here, it sounds like trials is largely made up of old fuddy duddies, and trials in America will probably follow them to the grave. I may be reading between the lines, but it seems that some believe that this NATC group is the devil, and others are hoping usmta will be the next messiah. Everyone here seems concerned about the future of their sport, and want others to join in. Why perform the alien autopsy by analyzing internal conflict, but, instead, ask outsiders why they don't want to ride a trials bike? It is going to take outsiders to cause growth. This is how religious groups increase their numbers, and it works for them. I consider my riding buddies to be a good representative sample of off-road motorcyclists, and they all criticize the bike for reasons I have previously mentioned. That is where the focus should be. You raise a rather enlightened point about the environmental impact and MX type machines. I have been incredibly impressed with how little physical impact my trials bike has on trails. Most of the time, one can't even see any signs that my motorycle even went through there. I have argued with my buddies that if I was the supreme, grand ayatollah of America , I would lower the decibel limit by about 15 db, outlaw knobby tires (only trials and eco tires would be allowed), ban all loud pipes, and ban 2-strokes and quads (except those with trials like engine characteristics). I sometimes get the feeling they want to burn me at the stake, but I believe these types of changes are necessary for the future of off-road motorcycling. But, it is probably too late for that, and we have been riding down the path of destruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I agree completely! From what I have read here, it sounds like trials is largely made up of old fuddy duddies, and trials in America will probably follow them to the grave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And the odd two minute wonder, who will discover that trials isn't as easy as it looks, and goes back to riding the four wheeler round the parking lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Aye Lad! Hit the nail on the head there Ish! For the average person who is interested in motorcycling, trials is by far the most difficult of all the aspects to get some sort of instant gratification. But, like golf, attracts a certain type of person, who is attracted to this sport by realizing the fullfillment and satisfaction when you have the "perfect ride". Which are few and far between for the average rider. Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Brendan,If it seems that a trials bike makes everything too easy then you are obviously not challenging yourself enough. You should try going riding with some experienced trials people. I won't be going to AZ for the Berg gathering, but if Bob & John have another ride I will try to make it with my lowered Berg. Check out sactopits.org and lewisportusa.com Great sources for information. There are some events at Frank Raines Park in a couple of months, check them out if you can. I'm sure our paths will cross sometime this year. Have a great one! Scott (cyclist) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Scott, Thanks for the info. I am scheduled to ride this Sunday with the Lewisport folks at Frank Raines. Although I never bought this machine to ride organized trials or compete, and my interest is lukewarm at best, I will at least once, go and check it out. I doubt I will ever return, as I have never seen an ohv park I have ever liked. Especially, when there are tens of thousands of acres in the local national forests to explore, and sights to see! I am going to enjoy as much of it as I can, before the government someday designates the majority of it as non-motorized recreational areas. That is the newer "Quiet Recreation" campaign the greenies are doing, rather than emphazing the less popular approach of converting everything over to wilderness areas. Since it sounds like Bob is not going to do the Trans America trail (transam.com) this year, I plan on using the vacation time I had for it, and go to the 2006 Husaberg meet in the Canadian Rockies. I hope you can go, too, as the UHE Canadians have claimed very high standards for the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 This is a topic on our club site at the moment. This year 15 ORV clubs will apply for events down the burn only 13 will be accepted. Last year 23 events were run and the year before 25 events. Last year our little club was allowed to run 5 trials events, when other off road clubs could get one or no event, we hope the case will be the same this year. Reasons our club could fly under the radar and do this when the bigger motorcycle/fourwheel clubs are only allowed one or no events, is, our club is small, we police ourselves, very low impact, small group that has shown over the years they will leave the area they use clean and tidy after use. If trials attracted greater numbers and people like MX/Enduro, our opportunities to ride in areas like this would probably be the same as theirs also. This is an email from the ODF , proposals for less events this year Oregon Department of Forestry. Two primary goals of our recreation program are to minimize adverse impacts to natural resources such as water quality and to manage for a wide variety of uses while minimizing user conflict. Increasing public use is causing both increasing adverse resource impacts and increasing user conflicts. A well managed recreation program can mitigate these and it is time for us to take a close look at how we are managing our program, including what our priorities are and how to best direct our staff. This past year it has become increasingly evident that we need to retool the motorized recreation program on the Tillamook State Forest. The biggest indicator of this need is the number of seasonal trail closures we needed to do this winter. Our trail system is not in shape to handle the increased level of motorized recreation it is getting, both organized and non-organized. Trail maintenance should to be our top priority and staff time needs to be adjusted to adequately plan, implement and administer trail maintenance. To free up this needed staff time, we are proposing a number of significant changes to the Motorized Event Program for 2006. These changes include setting a calendar of available dates for events, reducing the total number of events to 13, establishing a simple drawing to allocate those dates and generally being more businesslike in how we administer the program. We have scheduled three meetings related to 2006 Motorized Events. January 30 – This meeting will start at 6:30PM at the ODF Forest Grove District office. We will present our proposal and have a discussion about it. While this is not a formal hearing, we want your comments and input before we finalize this year’s program. February 6 – This meeting will also start at 6:30PM at the ODF Forest Grove District office. This is planned to be the “Drawing Meeting”. Each club interested in hosting an event in 2006 needs have an official representative, preferably an officer, attend to participate and pick dates if successful. February 25 – The department will host an Event Permit Workshop starting at 9:00AM at the Forest Grove District office and running until about noon. This workshop is required for clubs that were successful in drawing an Event date. We realize we are later than usual preparing for the upcoming Event season. We are trying to hurry things along at this point but do not want to compromise process or participation. We will work with those who draw early Event dates on permit timelines. Please join us on January 30 to discuss the 2006 Motorized Event Program. If you have questions or comments before then, email us or give us a call. Or you can contact Kelly Foster at 503-359-7463, kfoster@odf.state.or.us. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Sam, I agree with your larger top class concept! How this could be done and have harder sections for good measure than we have now is using the foremat they use for the ladies world championship. They have easy morning sections that everyone can ride, then the best of the preliminary sectons transfer to the finals. In the finals the sections are very hard but only the best ladies must ride them. This gives all the riders an overall placing for the year, yet tests all riders to their limits without being a danger to anyone. There is no reason we could not adapt this to the US men's nationals. We would have 50 or 60 riders getting a national ranking. Yet the very best men would be riding harder sections than they are on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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