17 replies to this topic

[bikespace]

On a similar topic to the Laia Sainz post - for those of you who were following the big boys round the last lap - what would you have given Raga on section 11? This was where he got the tape hooked over his back wheel and managed to hook it out with his foot.
He got a two for his dabs.
I heard a few people murmering it should have been a '5'.
What d'ya reckon? And why!

I was the fat bloke that left it at two fingers by the way

[Andy]

bikespace, on Aug 4 2006, 06:46 PM, said:

I was the fat bloke that left it at two fingers by the way

WUSS!

[windlestone]

Couldn't see for some fat bloke in the section

[sirdabsalot]

I don't understand why it would be a five?? Don't the rules say you can't remove your hand from the handlebar while stopped, but nothing mentioned about a foot?

[scorpa3]

A one for stopping.
A one for footing.
A five for breaking the tape.
A five for dislodging a marker.

Was the tape broken?
Was a marker dislodged?

[AtomAnt]

windlestone, on Aug 4 2006, 08:00 PM, said:

Couldn't see for some fat bloke in the section

LMFAO

[Telecat]

Louis Haley got a Five at section 4(The one next to fifteen), for bashing the tape. didn't hook it just pushed it. My interpretation would be as yours. However I believe the observers on those sections were BDMC.

Edited by Telecat, 04 August 2006 - 07:45 PM.

[Woody]

Very harsh - it's only a 5 if the tape breaks. They get away with murder with other rules, feet down, going backwards etc. and someone gets a five for touching the tape. It's getting as bad as Formula 1 for rules and rule interpretation......

[seandellear]

id say it was a two aswell! He did break the tape and also had the skill to unhook it with his foot! (i
wasnt there unfortunately so just going on what has been described)
Cheers sean

[bikespace]

windlestone, on Aug 4 2006, 08:00 PM, said:

Couldn't see for some fat bloke in the section

These were the things going through my mind (the bits in blue are excerpts from the rules):

The machine touches the ground with the front or rear wheel, outside a
boundary.
The rider or machine breaks, removes, knocks down or rides over or above
a marker or marker support with one of his wheels before the front wheel
spindle passes a “section ends” sign.
The tape had been pushed outwards, and eventually pulled inwards by the wheel a bit, but the wheel remained within the tape, or within the line of the section at the point where the tape was pulled inwards.

The rider does not have both hands on the handlebar when he foots, whilst
stationary.
I thought any minute now he's going to make it easy for me by unhooking it with his hand and he can have a 5 for that.

The machine is moving backwards with or without the rider footing
There must have been a temptation to let the bike roll back a bit. If he had, he would have had a 5 for that.

The rider dismounts from the machine and he has both feet on the ground,
on the same side or behind the axle of the back wheel of the machine.

This is the rule that Harry Lampkin suggested he should have had a 5 for. This is also a rule I've mentioned before on here, because I think it's incomplete. If you don't put both feet on the ground, you haven't dismounted from the bike according to this rule. I don't like the definition and according to the rules I could never have fived him for it.
His foot went as far as being above the mudguard, and when he managed to unhook the tape it was sticking awkwardly through the mudguard to the other side of the wheel.

The last thing I thought he might get caught on was running out of time, but he managed to get through.

Thanks for the replies - especially you Windlestone I'm at a disadvantage as i didn't get to meet you

[Montman]

'The rider dismounts from the machine and he has both feet on the ground,
behind the axle of the back wheel of the machine.'

Did not know that one.

In that case Dougie should not have won the French World Round!

[TordiJarres]

Although the partisan amongst us were praying for a "5" I have to say that good old British fair play was deployed (I'd like to think the same would apply to Doug in Spain but i doubt it).

I was stood about 4 feet from his back wheel at that section. The observer got it right. We can't complain just because another observer allegedly got it wrong elsewhere on the course. I too was amazed athat after all that dicking about, he was still in time!

[bikespace]

Montman, on Aug 5 2006, 10:17 AM, said:

'The rider dismounts from the machine and he has both feet on the ground,
behind the axle of the back wheel of the machine.'

Did not know that one.

In that case Dougie should not have won the French World Round!

What d'ya mean - I missed that bit of controversy. What was that all about?

[Montman]

At the French round about 3 sections from the end of the day Dougie dismounted in that way when going up a steep rooty turn and the observer called '5'.
Dougie brilliantly very quickly completed the section and threw down his bike and rushed back to have a word with the observers and after a lengthy discussion, mostly in sign language, they changed the '5' to a '2' and that made the difference between 1st and 3rd place!

[bikespace]

Hmmmmm...... I think that's the trouble when maybe the observers are not dead sure of the rules. If you're dead certain and you point out why they got a 5, they can't say an awful lot (although Taddy probably would), but most of the riders know the rules better than some of the observers.
Ron does a pretty good job of going through the rules, but there's always the rules that aren't quite watertight. A few spring to mind:

1. The dismount rule which we were already discussing. Loophole seems to be that if you manage to leave one foot off the ground, you can never be given a 5 according to the rules.

2. Handlebar touching the ground is a 5. That's clear cut when the ground is fairly flat, but when they're riding across a really steep camber, they slip and the bar touches a hump in the ground, is it a 5? Maybe it's a rock that it touches - it's not so clear cut then, but......I'm a little happier with that one being a common sense decision.

3. Rider is lying on his side having fallen off, still astride the bike and has managed to keep the bars off the ground. He could be lying almost upside down on a hill, but what can I five him for?